Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

JRJ

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Not trying to convert anyone, but I sure like my 4 stroke over the 2 stroke I owned. That said, I hope 2 strokes keep getting better.
 

JasonJ

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

My personal belief is that the new 4 strokes provide great service for the majority of boaters out there who just want to get in and drive the boat and do not care how the boat actually is propelled. These are the same people who are accustomed to inboard boats and are still basing their entire decision making on their daddy's old stinky 2 stroke boat he took them fishing on a million years ago. If I were to buy new, it would probably be the latest technology of 2 stroke. they have better economy, less moving parts, and are based on a reciprocating assembly that has been around longer than most people have been alive. I have no fear of electronic engine management systems, that is what diagnostic equipment is for. I much prefer to plug in a scantool and find out I need to replace a sensor than screwing around all day just to find out it was a vacuum leak. As it stands, new 2 strokes are superior to the 4 strokes that are basically converted car engines.
 

JRJ

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

I agree with JasonJ, "4 strokes provide great service" :cool:
 

gss036

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

If you live near a Coast Guard station, talk to the young people who run the Honda engines and get their opinons about maintence since they are doing thier on now. We have CG-BP-Customs & Homeland security all running out of here and they all have different opinions and a huge number of hours. The average boat here will run over a hundred miles on their shift. They all grumble about the maintence aspect, seeing they are running twin 225's, not much grumbling about the longievity of the Hondas. I have a three friends who have 225's and they swear by them. I probably will repower myself within the next couple of years and if E-Tec would price thier engines more competitive I would buy one w/o hesitation. Just my 2 cents:
 

imported_Curmudgeon

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Lets not forget USCG, et al, probably have Hondas because Honda (or a Honda distrubuter) was low bidder on a government contract. Then again, the same would probably be true if they ran Eskas. ;)
 

cobra 3.0

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Honda has proven to be at the top in everything they make and is the yardstick by which others compare themselves to.(cars, generators, lawnmowers, pressure washers, ATV's, motor cycles, and outboards.)<br /><br />RELIABILITY = HONDA! Go with the best and forget the rest! :p
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Also keep in mind that Honda "anything" is usually purchased by people who have the money to do the required maintenance. Hondas are no better or worse than most products. I will give them an edge on small engines that are used on gen sets, mowers, washers, and some pumps. But, it's a small edge.
 

gss036

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

I have a friend who worked at Safeboats when they started putting the Honds on. They orginally had Yamaha 4 strokes on the boats. Yamaha would not honor the 2-3 year warranty,(whatever it was) and Honda does, so they switched engines to get the warranty, I don't think the USCG had anything to do with the change.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

The warranty for commercial applications is one year on both Yamaha and Honda. It sounds more like somone got smart and registered the Hondas to individuals rather than commercially.
 

dajohnson53

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Originally posted by Upinsmoke:<br /> Some asked me earlier if "I had to buy a new motor what would it be?" My answer is it depends on what boat that engine will go on and how it will be used. ...
this excerpt is exactly the point: These discussions always sound to me like either (1) people looking for the answer to "what is the best engine" and/or (2) people claiming to know the answer. <br /><br />The truth is, if there were in fact a "best engine" or even a "best technology" (e.g. 4 carb vs 4 EFI, vs 2 carb vs 2 EFI vs 2 DFI), that one manufacturer or technology would dominate and the others would go out of business very very quickly. Case in point, the only technology with any serious defect in the past memory actually went bankrupt. No one else has had this problem (among the big established brands and types of technology). Therefore the marketplace has not identified any as Best or Worst. It just isn't the case. Personal factors such as budget, weight, speed, torque, fuel economy, ease of maintenance, amoount trolling vs WOT, etc. etc. will determine which is best on an individual basis. There is no such thing as the best. In my opinion anyone who says there is is full of it!<br /><br />Frankly, when push comes to shove, the technologies are so similar in the amount of satisfaction they give to their users that my strong guess would be that when it comes to purchase time, the final factors aren't at all brand or technology related, but most often related to PRICE and CONFIDENCE IN THE DEALER. Just MHO, of course (Humble? nah!)
 

dajohnson53

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Oh, I also wanted to say it is not my intention to call "BS" on the discussion, just give my opinion that there is no answer, just a discussion. The discussion is indeed valuable because hearing the various pros and cons of the various technologies and brands will help all of us when we make our choice based on individual factors... I still think price and dealer will trump almost all other differences though!
 

LubeDude

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Well, even though he tried to convince me that four stroke was the way to go, I dont think Im sold especially on a Bass Boat. Anyone have one on a Bass Boat 150 HP and up that thinks its the way to go. I talked to a guy at the ramp the other day that had a suzuki and said he would never go back to a two stroke, but we dont have really big lakes here so I dont see where it would matter much.
 

jim dozier

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Now if I could just figure out how to put an Evinrude ETEC direct injection fuel system on a Mazda RX rotary and stand it on its end, best of 3 worlds.
 

LubeDude

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

jimd:<br /><br />I beleive it was evenrude that actually did a bunch of testing with rotary outboards. They went like stink, and all they had to do to increase HP was to stack rotars. Big problem was that they sucked fuel like major, and were very dirty running engines.<br /><br />Yes, here is some information.<br /><br />OMC 4 rotor outboards raced about six times summer and fall of 1973, winning every race in U class (unlimited). For example, at the Galveston Speed Classic, they placed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, lapping the entire field three times (a fourth rolled and smashed). Displacement was 122 cubic inches. Power was estimated at 330 hp. <br /><br />OMC race tested some RCE engines with an eye to production. In testing they were installed on 18 foot tunnel boats constructed by Glastron. Rev limit was as high as 14,000 rpm. Power was over 200 hp. Rumour has it that they could easily run at over 120 mph, and once made a straight-away pass at 165 mph.
 

JasonJ

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

I love rotary engines, they are pure genious. They have wretched low-end torque and suck fuel like its free-crack-day-in-Harlem, but you can't beat the simplicity and power-to-weight ratio...
 

LubeDude

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Originally posted by JasonJ:<br /> They have wretched low-end torque
Ya, if you have the air conditioning on and you are on any kind of a hill and have to stop, you have to turn it off just to get going again. :eek:
 

SeaJayacas

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Well that does it for me, if that mechanic says Honda's are the best, well darn, they just have to be then!!<br /><br />Somebody fire off an email to yammi, rude, merc and suzi. Tell them to close down their plants because a mechanic has picked honda over them. Let them know that they will never be able to sell another engine becasuse as soon as word spreads about Honda's being the best they will never be able to sell another engine.<br /><br />And who was it that said understanding business was difficult.
 

butlp

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

OK, I'll way in with my 10 cent!<br /><br />I own a 2002 EFI 50 hp 4 stroke with about 150 hours, a 2005 DFI 115 hp 2 stroke with about 50 hours and a 1996 15 hp 2 stroke with unknown hours.<br /><br />The 4 stroke is very good for a pontoon boat, always starts at the turn of the key, is quiet at less than WOT and has been trouble free. The down side, you can smell the exhaust in a trailing wind situation, it's a pain to check the oil level and it's quiet loud at WOT.<br />Servicing is 3.5L of synthetic oil, a new filter and the regular lower unit and grease once a year. I do my own maintenance and estimate $20 per year plus an impeller and timing belt every 5 years.<br /><br />The DFI completely surprised me as it performed as well if not better than the 4 stroke, has run flawlessly and is great for a ski boat. After the 4 hours of break-in there is not a hint of blue smoke, even at start-up from cold. You can detect a faint smell at idle but it's no worse than the 4 stroke. The amazing thing is how frugal it is on gas and oil and how quiet it is even at WOT.<br />Servicing costs are higher than expected due to the need to replace an air filter (approx $25) every year, plus a belt every five years. I would estimate that operation and maintenance costs are very similar between the two motors.<br /><br />The little 2 stroke starts on the first pull, smokes like a SOB, is used and abused by all the kids and is cheap to run and maintain.<br /><br />In conclusion, I'm a believer in "fit for purpose", the 4 stroke with the right lower unit is perfect for pontoons and non performance boats and the DFI is perfect for Ski/Bass boats.
 

jy118lfd

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

I can't wait for the first real diesel outboard it will make 200 hp weigh in at 1100lbs and someone will say how great it is :D <br /><br />Boy the forums will be really heated then!<br /><br />We can then rehash the two stroke to four stroke debate all over again.<br /><br />POOR DEAD HORSE he's gonna get a beatin all over again
 

Chief101

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Re: Interesting discussion with marine mechanic!

Jon, dead horses can't fight back so of course they take the beating. By the way LD, did you ever buy that Honda outboard? ;)
 
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