Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

[dingbat]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

Dingbat, You do realize that chart is proproganda. Heatpumps are simply central air conditioners, that can work in reverse in the winter, "pumping heat" instead of pumping cold air. They are only suitable in moderate climates, because when the ambient temperature falls below 32*F there is not enough "Heat" to pump. Most have supplemental electrical resistance heating for those days. You want some expense, heat your house with electrical resistance.

Been there don?t that. I ran a heat pump with resistance backup in a 3,200 sq. ft. home for 20+years. The most I ever spent heating that house for the winter (5 months) was $1,400, averaged closer to $1,200 during the typical winter. I will concede that our daily average highs in the winter (Baltimore/ DC area) are 50 degrees and an average low of 34 degrees so near perfect conditions for the heat pump.

In comparison, I now heat 4,500 sq. ft. with a ?high efficiency? forced air oil burner. We stayed in neighborhood so the climate data is the same. My heating bill last year was almost $3,000 of "fossil fuel".

Converting to heat pump with oil backup in the next couple of years. One caveat. The home above was built to 90's sealing and insulation standards. Our current home was built to late 70's standards so the home's "efficiency" is a factor.

for example, a heatpump is using electricity to heat water. Since the cost of generating electricity is already a minimum of 36% more than any fossil fuel, running the heatpump compressor to produce heat would need to cost 36% less than directly heating water with a flame. I do not see how that is possible, given EER ratings of air conditioning systems

Heat Pump Systems | Department of Energy

Because they move heat rather than generate heat, heat pumps can provide up to 4 times the amount of energy they consume.

That chart has probably been skewed to show a climate perfectly suited to heat pumps. It likely does not apply to anyone in the north or south. Remember "there are lies, there are damned lies and then there is statistics".

Heat pumps may not be feasible up north for now but the popularity of geo-thermal systems is on the rise. The performance of my neighbors system is pretty impressive.

Please explain why you can?t use one in the south? My parents use a heat pump in Tampa they are very happy with.

 

[jkust]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

Ummm, I have a heat pump in Wisconsin, works fine. Of course it uses the earth not ambient outside air. Called geothermal and cost a lot but runs very cheaply.

I've seen geothermal and heat pump systems here in MN. I don't profess to know how they work but I've seen them advertised during the builders Parade of Homes.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

OK, That DOE Heat pump article says that a heatpump can save 30%-40% over houses heated with electricity. It doesn't say, but I would presume they mean electrical resistance heating. That makes sense. They did not state it's efficiency in comparison to burning natural gas to provide hot air heat (90%+ efficient) or heating water (something less than 90% efficient, but close). Intrinsic reasoning says a heat pump cannot be more efficient than a direct burn of cheap natural gas, as the refridgeration cycle has never come close to that efficiency.

Geothermal heating relies on using the constant temperature of groundwater (low 60s*F) as a source for air conditioning or heating. In winter a heatpump will pump heat from the groundwater into the house. In summer a heatpump will pump cold into the house. So the groundwater will cool or heatup the condenser or evaporator (as necessary) to add efficiency.

 

[limitout]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

we have to be carefull as all charts can say what you want them to say in your favor to sell your product but the cost of fuel and the efficiency of a system are different animals and the cost of fuel is different in each area.

fuel produced heat is always the best choice but may not always be the most cost effective if your fuel cost is very high depending on your area but I will say this, fuel heaters produce HOT air and electric heaters only blow WARM air and that is the reason they have to run an average of twice as long or more to do the same amount of climate control.

heat pumps are just electric heaters that use the a/c compressor to help out. you want to know how good it works go outside in the summer and feel the hot air coming out of the outside unit. that's what the capacity of a heat pump is and then the dirty little secret they don't want you to know is if your heat pump runs longer then 5 minutes the electric heater kicks in to help it out so then you are running your a/c compressor AND the electric heater at the same time so a heat pump is just an electric heater that uses the electric heater 40% of the time its running.

depending on your area electricity might be cheaper then gas or fuel oil so whats best for you depends on where you live.

often people prefer electric heat and heat pumps because they don't blow hot air and as a result dont dry it out as much.

anywho we are way off track here for a thread about wether a boat with gas tanks being in the garage is dangerous

 

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

+1 to COST-- I could care less if item X is electric and 99% efficient and item Y is gas and 40% efficient, what I DO care about is what I pay every month. In these parts, an electric water heater is something RICH people have!

That said, and back on topic-- sorta-- I'm wondering why it seems to be assumed that a boat is going to have gas fumes in the bilge? I don't believe boats are any more prone to gas leaks than a car. Or the gas fired water heater in the garage for that matter. You're likely to have more gas fumes from the lawnmower gas can than the boat...

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

I used to store my outboard in the garage. Even when I stored the tank outside.... there was a distinctive fuel smell, maybe not active vapors. I moved it outside for safety.

Just wanted to see if there was "conventional wisdom".

Thanks all for the replies, and for all the info about water heaters.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

OK, Back on topic. Boat fuel tanks are vented to the open air, much like autos used to be in the 70s. It was not an issue for autos, so I doubt it would be an issue for boats. Unless your garage is real air tight, fumes will not build up to dangerous levels.

Fumes can build up in the bilge of an IB or I/O boat. This can happen anytime, and sparks in these fumes can occur during starting. Always ventilate the bilge before starting the motor. If you plan on starting the boat up while it is in the garage, I recommend you open the garage door to allow for venitlation, prior to starting the motor.

Remember, gas and air must be mixed at about a 15::1 ratio, and then compressed before it will explode. I doubt you would see that concentration.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Is it safe to store boat in garage w/H2O heater???

That said, and back on topic-- sorta-- I'm wondering why it seems to be assumed that a boat is going to have gas fumes in the bilge? I don't believe boats are any more prone to gas leaks than a car. You're likely to have more gas fumes from the lawnmower gas can than the boat...

If you have a carb, you will ALWAYS have fumes. Impossible not to, as there is always a circuit in the carb that exposes raw gas to raw atmosphere. The engine wouldn't start if this wasn't done. And as other post mentioned, boat tanks are vented to atmosphere.

A modern car has fuel injection which is 100% closed when not in used, and closed fuel system with charcoal canisters.