Is It Too Much Horsepower????

[drrpm]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

The OP doesn't say how old the engine is, but if its anywhere near as old as the boat it isn't making 200 HP.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

Frowned upon yes, not certain it's actually against the law.

http://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/LE/LE0301.pdf

It may not be listed in the 2012 regs you linked, but it is in the 2010 regs in my hand.

Quoted from the Wisconsin boating regulations, page 16:


""Overpowering is equipping a vessel beyond its safe power capacity.
It is illegal to sell, equip, operate or allow another to operate a boat
with any motor or other propulsion machinery beyond its safe power
capacity, normally shown on the capacity plate. Overpowering is illegal.""


Here is the actual publication. See the lower left hand corner.

 

[BRICH1260]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

I work in the insurance industry, and on our application there is a question as to the hull rating v motor horsepower. If you disclose the truth to both on the application and they issue the policy, then you should be covered. If you mislead on one or the other and something occurs, then you could be left holding the bag financially. My company would not issue a policy knowing the boat was overpowered.

Physically the boat may handle the weight and horsepower, but you could be setting yourself up for a lawsuit or a denied claim should something occur. Make sure you disclose the facts.

 

[DirtyOldBoat]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

Personally I think the horsepower ratings are a bunch of BS! It's a formula based on the dimensions of your boat. It does not take into account the type of hull, the type and strength of the construction, the weight of the boat, or the weight of the motor. These are all very important factors when choosing a motor HP. Additionally, only outboard boats are rated for a certain horsepower - you can put a supercharger on your inboard and nobody will say a word. Ridiculousness!

I have a 1973 Glastron rated for 120hp. It has had 150hp inline 6 on it for the last 40 years. Nobody has ever gotten in trouble for that. There have never been any insurance issues. The boat has never crashed. The transom is in perfect condition. The truth is my boat hasn't had a rating "plate" in probably 30 years.

Here's where it gets real stupid: in 1982 Mercury changed their horsepower ratings from the crankshaft to the propshaft. This means the 150hp became 115hp. Now it's not overpowered anymore with the same engine. :facepalm: (though, nobody changed how boats were rated) Also, the same 6 cylinder engine was available in 90 or 115 horsepower...so the exact same engine weight as the 150. I could put "900" stickers on my 150hp and nobody would ever know the difference.

 

[mr 88]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

No question that the motor you already own is the one you're likely to use! I make sure to run my boat at WOT every time I take her out, at least for a while, just to maintain engine health. Most of us can't afford to run WOT all the time!!! If I had a 200 instead of a 115, I would certainly still do that - but my boat IS rated for 200. As an engineer, I over-design the hell out of everything I design and build, but I can't vouch for any boat manufacturer, who has to balance cost against performance. That's a tricky balancing act, and more than one manufacturer has gone belly-up because their cost-cutting went too far.

Interestingly, the Mercury 60, 75, 90 and 115 are all THE SAME MOTOR, with different programming in the ECU. Arguably, you could "detune" that 200 to limit it to 150 HP, if it were a real concern (and this case it might be). I suppose that just limiting the RPMs (with that manual limiter - the throttle) would be sufficient.

You cannot de-tune a older motor that does not have a ECU. The OP has not stated what year the motor is,serial number is needed,it is a two stroke and probably is near the same age as the hull. In 1976 they rated the HP from the crank not the prop. Now if this is a model made after the HP rating change the OP will be way over the 150 marker...The biggest stress on that transom should be from the motor hanging not the top end. Once that boat gets on a plane the transom stress from going faster is minimal. Just think if your pushing your PU truck with all the pressure on the tailgate,once it gets rolling there is very little stress on the gate from pushing it at speed,yes I know its water not concrete,tires vs hull drag,principal is the same.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

Here's where it gets real stupid: in 1982 Mercury changed their horsepower ratings from the crankshaft to the propshaft. This means the 150hp became 115hp. Now it's not overpowered anymore with the same engine. :facepalm: (though, nobody changed how boats were rated) Also, the same 6 cylinder engine was available in 90 or 115 horsepower...so the exact same engine weight as the 150. I could put "900" stickers on my 150hp and nobody would ever know the difference.

So, by that line of thinking, if you were in need of repowering your boat, you could buy a newer 115, and it would run just as fast as your current 150? No way.

The truth is, hp loss by rating at the prop is less than 10%, and 10% is also the NMMA fudge factor in determining hp. That is, a 100 hp motor must produce between 90 and 110 hp to wear the 100 hp label.

 

[DirtyOldBoat]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

So, by that line of thinking, if you were in need of repowering your boat, you could buy a newer 115, and it would run just as fast as your current 150? No way.

The truth is, hp loss by rating at the prop is less than 10%, and 10% is also the NMMA fudge factor in determining hp. That is, a 100 hp motor must produce between 90 and 110 hp to wear the 100 hp label.

I'm talking ACTUAL NUMBERS. Mercury changed the 150hp inline 6 decals to 140hp in the late 70s because they didn't want it competing with the 150hp V6. They did not modify the engine. Then, in 1982, when they changed from crankshaft to propshaft ratings, they did it again. This time they changed the 140hp to 115hp. They never detuned the motor.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

I give up.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

This time they changed the 140hp to 115hp. They never detuned the motor.

Where did you get your info sir?

I ask because I had an '88 115 with a Laser 24P prop on an 18' Ranger BB and on my first trip out with the new boat I was up to 55 and things started to get unstable; chine walking. Had throttle left and shut her down before I got a tach reading. Prop slip calculator at 15% says about 5500.

After the outing I changed props for more of a general purpose prop, a Laser 19 , but at that it would still do mid 40's at 6k rpm. Besides that same boat would pop me up on a slalom at my 250#.....course the prop was ported.

A lot of whoopie for a 115.

Mark

 

[DirtyOldBoat]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

Where did you get your info sir?

I ask because I had an '88 115 with a Laser 24P prop on an 18' Ranger BB and on my first trip out with the new boat I was up to 55 and things started to get unstable; chine walking. Had throttle left and shut her down before I got a tach reading. Prop slip calculator at 15% says about 5500.

After the outing I changed props for more of a general purpose prop, a Laser 19 , but at that it would still do mid 40's at 6k rpm. Besides that same boat would pop me up on a slalom at my 250#.....course the prop was ported.

A lot of whoopie for a 115.

Mark

It's just common knowledge around the Mercury forums. If you take a late production 115hp I6 apart and compare it to an early 150hp I6...you'll find it's mostly the same thing minus the distributor. The carbs and porting in the block are what makes them a 90, 115, 140, or 150...and the old 150/new 115 are the same here. This is why the "1500"s disappeared in the late 70s.

This does not go for ALL outboard motors, just the Mercury I6s, but the point is if they can play with the horsepower ratings on motors like this, then the horsepower rating on your boat is irrelevant unless they are going to change that too.

 

[Fiberformboatowner]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

The motor is a 1977 and in Utah which ?s where I'm from its not illegal and I don't ever plan on going to Wisconsin so I'm not to worried about it:yo:

 

[Fiberformboatowner]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

Spoke too soon it is illegal but eh I don't have 12 grand to fork out for another outboard so ill run her how she is

 

[Maclin]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

Just wondering why you even asked now

 

[Fiberformboatowner]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

Wanted a professional opinion on it, this is my first boat and haven't done any boating at all so just wanted some info

 

[JimS123]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

This is one of the most frequently asked questions around here, and most every time the OP ignores all of the "professional opinions".

Truth is the real reason for the post is to have a bunch of outsiders validate what is already suspected to be a bad idea.

If your doctor's professional opinion was to get test A because you have a family history of disease B would you ignore him too?

I see too much lack of common sense out on the water these days, and much of it is from youngins and novice boaters. It scares me sometimes. That's why I avoid the busy times and go boating during the week.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????



You know: Everyone here gets all bent out of shape by this simple question and yet they ALL ignore the simple fact that the liability always lies with the ACTIONS of the operator. A 300 HP engine is not going to have an accident or kill someone unless the operator does something stupid. Yes, there will always be the relatively rare occurrence where someone else does something stupid but the liability is on them.

However, understand that with the overpowered boat you ARE opening yourself to the possibility of increased hassling

Back in the 70s, insurance companies started to increase premiums for "Muscle cars." I read an official report on "cheaters." The insurance company stand was that those who paid were covered and those who lied about the horsepower of their cars were MORE LIKELY to be more careful drivers-- in any case, the insurance company wins!

Power the boat with your 200 engine (you probably are going to anyway) BUT be certain that the structure is sound and don't use the horsepower in speeding through congested areas.

Here is a boat originally rated for probably about 40. It is now rated for 85 (don't ask and I won't tell). It is powered with a 125 soon to be 140. It is highly modified to take the horsepower and is a safe ride (relatively speaking) BUT----I don't use it during heavy traffic days. Notice in the photos that the water is smooth and you don't see any other boats.

" Too much horsepower is never enough"

 

[JimS123]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

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You know: Everyone here gets all bent out of shape by this simple question and yet they ALL ignore the simple fact that the liability always lies with the ACTIONS of the operator. A 300 HP engine is not going to have an accident or kill someone unless the operator does something stupid. Yes, there will always be the relatively rare occurrence where someone else does something stupid but the liability is on them.

However, understand that with the overpowered boat you ARE opening yourself to the possibility of increased hassling

Back in the 70s, insurance companies started to increase premiums for "Muscle cars." I read an official report on "cheaters." The insurance company stand was that those who paid were covered and those who lied about the horsepower of their cars were MORE LIKELY to be more careful drivers-- in any case, the insurance company wins!

Power the boat with your 200 engine (you probably are going to anyway) BUT be certain that the structure is sound and don't use the horsepower in speeding through congested areas.

Here is a boat originally rated for probably about 40. It is now rated for 85 (don't ask and I won't tell). It is powered with a 125 soon to be 140. It is highly modified to take the horsepower and is a safe ride (relatively speaking) BUT----I don't use it during heavy traffic days. Notice in the photos that the water is smooth and you don't see any other boats.

" Too much horsepower is never enough"

Very well stated....and coming from a responsible and knowledgeable boater whose actions are responsible as well, and HAS made certain that his structure is sound.

Wherein lies the problem is the irresponsible novice boater that can't perceive the danger involved and doesn't know HOW to check the soundness of the structure.

 

[DirtyOldBoat]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

This is one of the most frequently asked questions around here, and most every time the OP ignores all of the "professional opinions".

"Professionals" are wrong all the time. There are opinions here for both sides, and both from apparently well educated people. Just because you don't agree with one doesn't make it wrong. The OP has to "ignore" one side or the other.

validate what is already suspected to be a bad idea.

That's definitely one man's opinion...

If your doctor's professional opinion was to get test A because you have a family history of disease B would you ignore him too?

I would never ever ever ever do anything major on the advice of one single doctor. I limp when I walk because I took the advice of one doctor who nearly killed me. A "professional", who I paid a lot of money to be completely wrong...

And one more thing: my insurance company has never asked what horsepower my boat is rated for. They ask what HP it has, and never have any issue with it. This whole argument is really, really ridiculous when you compare it to an inboard boat. Nobody would care if you added an extra 100hp to your engine. There would be no discussion about being "overpowered".

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Is It Too Much Horsepower????

This has gone the same route as ever other one of these threads. Closed.