Is the bible fact or fiction?

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Thanks for your views on this. I have always accepted that Jesus was a Jew while others argue against it. Many of the hate groups don't see it the way we do. I used it to try to help these people let go of their hurtful ways.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

In order to summon an opinion, let us analyze the contend within and shall we get to the point.<br /><br />The bible painted a picture of people lived much longer than people of today. According to the book of Genesis up to 1,000 years old. Physically a person at the time didn't stop growing until he or she reached the age of 40 or so. An average person was 25 feet tall and roughly 755 pounds. Maybe so, but no such human fossil ever recorded by Archeologist. In fact what human remains of our early ancestors found are much smaller in weight and height. Such contradiction to such a respect literature by some. Inaddition, our advancement in science is the reason we should live longer and not shorter. We don't have to look far to prove this. Just compare now to the 1800's. Our life expectancy is much higher. The thought of it makes me weak in the joint. Follow along as I get closer to my point.<br /><br />One may argue that their height and weight was relative the same as people of today, but lived much longer. This is not possible. No creature in the animal kingdom is excluded from the law of physic within a closed environment the Planet Earth. The growing curve is the same in every species whether in the pass present or future. Ahhh hands are sore. Gotta take a break. Imma go outside to smoke a joint . Relax I'll be back to prove to you my point. <br /><br />In living testimony, as people of the world become more and more educated, the role of the bible or whatever religious doctrines you ably to is becoming less and less of an influence. At some point religion as a whole will be just a gap in human history for the far future generations to read and say, "They believed in that garbage. How contradicting they devoted themselves to such peace loving rules and morals on one hand and use the same belief to kill each other in justifiable wars". (I concur with the people of the future. So true. No I'm not a physic). Be patient, a few more minutes and you shall see the point.<br /><br /><br />Whether a person believes in the bible or any religion for that matter, I believe with strong conviction, depends on his or her education or lack thereof. No offense intended, people with less education tend to be at a higher risk of religious propaganda's . This is one of the most important fact why missionaries are so successful at converting people in a third world county where education is non- existence or minimal at best. Well at least one section of the bible is busted. Need I go further? Below is the point.<br /><br />ABSOLUTELY FICTION<br /><br />Note: I respect everyone of every faith. May you live long and prosper. May you encounter nothing but happiness Amen.

 

[bootle]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

"there are more people in the city of Cairo then the entire Jewish population of the world."<br /><br />18, the jewish people do not go around advertising themselves and imposing their beliefs on others.<br />Their history of the last 2000+ years has been one of emmense turbulence and catastrophies, surely they have learnt the art of being low keyed.<br />Perhaps Rolmops may care to clarify my curiousity <br />Since there are semites who are not jew.<br />How else does one define being a Jew?<br />Is it by religion? (followers of judaism)

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

To further prove my point, same subject. Different song. just as loud but not as long.<br /><br />My brother's wife side of the family are Jewish (Russian Jew). Between the 4 of them; 3 PHDs and a Law degree. What do they think about religions? Nonsense. Hmmm only one word but yet explains so much.<br /><br />I report. You decide. As you were.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

GQ, where in the Bible does it say people ever reached the size of 25' tall and 755 lbs.......I have read the Bible at least once all the way through and in parts numerous times and I can not recall that at all. Golaith was supposed to be 9 ft tall if memory serves me right and he was considered a giant. <br /><br /> As for your friends who are Jews and between the 4 of them have 3 PHDs and a Law degree.<br /><br /> In 1 Corinthians chapter 1 verse 18 it says "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,but to us who are being saved it is the power of G-D" <br /><br /> You see its not something you can learn. Its that way on purpose. G-d wants us to come to him out of a want for his glory to shine on us not because we figured out some thing because we are wise or smart. If it was because we were so smart Then we would be able to take the glory for this as opposed to relizing it is by his will we come to understand him.......All degrees of intellegent and not so intellegent people come to know God. I have said this before and I will say it again Religion is mans way of trying to reach G-d or, make a connection, Relationship is G-ds way of reaching man. That is why he sent his son here to have a relationship with man. I feel whether a moron, or genius wishes to reach out to G-d, and does, will have a experience with the Lord if their wish is genuine.Im not the best at writing my feelings so please take that into account.<br /><br /> It just makes sence that G-d would want us to have a manual on how live.......... But it takes faith to believe in G-d and in the Bible..........The name of G-d has been spelled incorectly in honor of Rolmops belief who by the way being Jew accourding to my Bible is one of G-ds choosen people.......Christians are a grafted branch to that tree......adopted brothers and sisters if you will. As for the world becoming more and more edjucated and leaving Religion behind and only ignoant third world peoples finding religion, I think you have been watching to much Star trek or maybe its the dope yer' smoking Im not sure where you get your numbers and info but according to both Christian and Muslem statistics religion is Growing per capita at rate never seen before......Now thats not saying that Christianity or islam is doing that but all the new age and other freaky stuff is growing.......How about showing one thing in the Bible you can prove is wiyhout a doubt fiction......just one thing you can prove......hmmmmm thought so. Like said in the previous post people have been trying to prove it false for at least the last 2000 yrs and have failed im guessing you aint gonna be the one to do it.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Greetings MikeandRonda! I'm not sure which one of you I am talking to; yes I will have that dance. Any old music will do. I'm 32 but I like to dance to music beyond my years. Something to the like of the BeeGees, "Satyin Alive", "Disco Fever" just to name a few. And don't forget to put on your dancing shoes. Same time tomorrow ? The first one to sit down is a loser............. bye

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Well for one its Mike and for two I dont dance......I did grow up in the days of metal and did my fair share of moshing.........so the whole disco thing aint gonna cut it with me. As for the same time tomarrow, well I will be on and off this site a whole bunch tomarrow and would enjoy delving deeper into this little debate we are having. ...........bye

 

[Link]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

rolmops <br />

Link,as far as changing text is concerned.the only difference between todays hebrew text and the ones found in the dead sea scrolls of 2000 years ago,is in the book of prophet Eliah where a typo was discovered in the old text.

REALLY!<br />I’m amazed but somehow not surprised.<br />I’ve been waiting all day and evening to get back here.<br />I did peek in and read your reply before heading out but wanted to think about it for awhile.<br />Since it was on PBS it was most likely 10 years old, but they had a show about the finding of the Dead Sea scrolls a couple months ago. It was fascinating to say the least.<br /><br />I’ve come up with three questions.<br /><br />A: When you say today’s Hebrew text, I think you are referring to what I would know as the Old Testament?<br /><br />B: If the first answer is yes, do you know of many “major” changes between the Hebrew text and the King James English version of the Old Testament?<br /><br />C: I've decieded not to ask here as it would be getting a little off topic.<br /><br />But I still have the question <br />Don't fall for that sucker punch rolmops<br />Aspeck did here from iboats. And he takes the time to answer my most stupid questions! Thanks Art! <br /><br />If I were a fly on the wall or Judge[/B] in this post.<br /><br />It would be <br />QC= 0<br />mikeandronda= 2<br /><br />Just my .02 cents

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Originally posted by Link:<br /> <br />

Link,as far as changing text is concerned.the only difference between todays hebrew text and the ones found in the dead sea scrolls of 2000 years ago,is in the book of prophet Eliah where a typo was discovered in the old text.

REALLY!<br />

No, not really. The Dead Sea scrolls contain significant differences between the Old Testament of then and now. As I recall, only what we know as the book of Isaiah is most similar to the scroll fragments with only minor differences. Also know the Dead Sea scrolls contain additional writings of things never seen before and does not contain the entire (Old Testament) bible. In fact, parts of what is in the scrolls are only fragments of something that was originally larger, something we don't know what it was.<br /><br />So, Rolmops, where did you do this supposed studying of scripture?!? Are you sure you aren't just making this up as you go?<br />

 

[rolmops]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

About the dead sea scrolls.<br />Josephus Flavius(his real name was Joseph son of matthew)writes about the Essenes in his book called "The war of the jews".He describes their life style in Jerusalem and the reasons why they decide to leave Jerusalem and settle near the dead sea.It is true that they wrote many different scrolls.Many that have to do with their day to day life and many about book keeping.They also had their more mystical literature like "The war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness" to mention only one.It is a miracle that we found as much as we did and they probably wrote many more things that were lost.<br />My mention of one book is used because it was the first one where it was possible to compare text and check accuracy.<br />Darth,what is a jew?It is a faith, a people and a culture.Some of it all.Mostly it is a community of people that hold on to their faith and culture through the ages by means of very strong educational values.To say more would mean opening up a wasps nest.Heycods may have a different viewaltogether.The semitic peoples are roughly those whose roots are found in Sumeria(gilgamesh and such)or what we also call Mesapotamia<br />QC,you think that the bible is fiction.Some of it probably is.It was not written to teach history.It was written so people can learn how to live.<br />Link,The hebrew text is what you would know as the old testament.The new testament was never written in hebrew,it was written in greek.<br />I do not know of any big differences between the King James and older texts.It may be that the King James version was translated from the Septuagint which was a greek translation stemming from about 200BC.Language is a living thing and meanings change.

 

[gonefishie]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

<br />How about showing one thing in the Bible you can prove is wiyhout a doubt fiction......just one thing you can prove......hmmmmm thought so.<br />

Mike, I'll helps GQ on this one. For one, the Noah's Ark, ahh...the most easily discredit thing in the bible. How can ONE man or perhap with the help of his son or family or whatever builds a boat big enough to carry two of every kind of animal on earth. I've seen wooden freight boat(in Vietnam) these things have a max carrying capacity of like 500 tons. In no way can they house two of every kind of animal on earth. The main hull beam that runs north and south of these boats is about 10x8" that had to be curved by heat to make the shape of a boat. That's only one of the many things one man couldn't do to build a large boat. Even Hercules couldn't do such a thing by himself and to think a boat that could carry two of every kind of animal on earth would have to be much larger then a 500 tons capacity boat. Second, Noah lived in Middle East right? where did he gets Lions, Girrafs, Cheetah, Polar Bears, and hundreds of other species that are not native to that region? Wait, I know what you're thinking. The continents had already seperated at the time of Noah, long before that. Did you think the Polar Bears swimmed across the ocean and walked across the desert to come to Noah's boat? There might have been a big flood, but not that big. Come to think about it, did the bible's author even know the existence of the artic poles or that a meteor is not God's fire send from heaven?

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Ok Gonefishie, I will try and answer your questions about the ark to the best of my ability. (Figures it would come to a discussion bout' boats here at iboats )First off yes this Ark would have to have been of immense size.Close to the size of the titanic if I remember correctly....Take hundreds of yrs to build and be quite the under taking. As for navigation how much do you really think he needed to do? I mean the entire world was flooded. Float around until you hit land. <br /><br /> The water level resided very quickly after 40 days....big thing here is floating not sailing. Second would be time to build, Remember people lived alot longer back then ( Thanx GQ).......<br /> Also just because people thought he was off his rocker doesn’t mean they were not for hire to help build right? Accourding to many peoples beliefs it had never rained before, you see the world was a bit like a terrarium and had a certian amount of miosture in the air at all times. The region where noah was probably much different. For one there were lions in the wilds of the middle east and it has been believed the middle east was much more like africa. Now as for how the animals got there, it does take a certain amount of faith, G-D is all about Faith........The world was at that time one continent and in order to flood the world the water had not only rained down but also came from under the earth. That is part of how the continents were split up. There is a cave in Florida somewhere that is like over a 100 ft under sea level. The are the remains of a camp with many tools and human bone fragments/fossils in this cave and it is quite a mystery being that is under water. They say the camp is pre flood and it comes from a time where the sea level was much lower. Well if the flood raised the water level by as much as 100 ft there would be many continent splits and new islands made right? <br /><br /> Now as for the animals all getting there, there is always the miracle aspect to this......I mean dont you think the creator of the universe might be able to " get er done" when it came down to getting the animals to the ark? I took a class on Apologetics.......Which is the belief that much of the Bible can be proven scientifically and historically though I pale in comparison to the teacher but I believe I outlined what we learned.

 

[gonefishie]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Look what I've dugged up.<br />Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.<br /><br />Sorry to disappointed you Mike but the continents splitted in the hundred of MILLIONS YEARS AGO. It splitted and joined several time but the present form today is finalized about 65 million years ago. The bible says this flood happened around 4500 yrs ago.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Well thats a whole nother subject......What scientific evedence do we have that the earth is over 10,000 yrs old..........Carbon Dating? If thats what you think well Carbon Dateing is only accurate for about 10,000 years......after that its just theory and speculation just like evolution. Many of the Religious scholers believe the Bible has a span of over 10,000 years........There is no absolute scientific proof or any way of telling how old the earth is. Sooooooo Im not disapointed Gonefishie........Acctully I become more convinced of the Bible being the Truth and an accurate form of historical evidence when ever this is debated. When I became a Christian I struggled with much of what I was being taught, Creation, The flood the Ark........But I had to look at it this way. I found out G-D was real so this is where I start......If he is real then the next step was to learn everything I could about him. Much knowledge came from the Bible.......Yep much of whats in there is really hard to believe or even conceive. But my question is after 2000 + yrs many scholors still can not disprove any of it........Yes it takes faith that G-d is real and the words in Bible are his, writen by men whom he prompted to write for him.........Faith is a funny thing, hard to understand if you dont have it..........

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

This is gonna be like those guys sitting on a bench with goggles watching a nuke explode on the horizon.<br />

 

[txswinner]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Amazing thread and no troll pictures. Is not religion the most volatile issue to debate, filled with prejudices taught to us our entire lives. However, as all know I love a great debate. This one is always best resolved by asking who started all this if not God.

 

[Dave Abrahamson]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Is the Bible fact or fiction? Yes

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Well Tx lets hear what you have to say on this subject Fact or fiction????????

 

[txswinner]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Mike, My answer is yes. I have not that much to add as I am a Christian and follow my belief in God and our savation through Jesus Christ. Guess I am one of those less educated ones. "And may the good Lord take a liken to ya." Tennesee Ernie Ford (I think).

 

[bekosh]

Re: Is the bible fact or fiction?

Originally posted by mikeandronda:<br /> Well thats a whole nother subject......What scientific evedence do we have that the earth is over 10,000 yrs old..........Carbon Dating? If thats what you think well Carbon Dateing is only accurate for about 10,000 years......after that its just theory and speculation just like evolution.

Actually, Carbon-14 dating is accurate back about 60,000 years. Older than that and you have to use other radioisotopes. <br /><br />

Quote from Howstuffworks:<br />Because the half-life of carbon-14 is 5,700 years, it is only reliable for dating objects up to about 60,000 years old. However, the principle of carbon-14 dating applies to other isotopes as well. Potassium-40 is another radioactive element naturally found in your body and has a half-life of 1.3 billion years. Other useful radioisotopes for radioactive dating include Uranium -235 (half-life = 704 million years), Uranium -238 (half-life = 4.5 billion years), Thorium-232 (half-life = 14 billion years) and Rubidium-87 (half-life = 49 billion years).

The problem with the Bible as history, talking Old testement, is that the storys were passed down for thousands of years as oral stories before ever being written down. This makes it difficult to sort the history from the mythology.<br />For example the first written story of the Great Flood was originally written down around 2000BCE in The Epic of Gilgamesh , 1800 years before the Bible was written down, and certianly predates that by hundreds if not thousands of years. <br />The story may have been passed down from the end of the last ice age, when the Mediteranian Sea overflowed into what is now the Black Sea. That would make the story 8-10,000 years old. Black Sea Deluge