Johnsonstein died

[14ftgrumman]

Well, I finally had a chance to take the 25HP elect start (1972) out for it's maiden voyage. It ran like a champ- for about 20 minutes, then the clutch dog started slipping. Half way back to the landing, the gear box gave up, and motor wound up to WOT. This lasted for 2 min., and then stopped. Allways make sure you have alternate means of propulsion when trying out a newly built Johnsonstein. Make sure that you have your canoe paddle and that the battery booster pak is fully charged, or you will be waiting for the wind to blow you to shore and you will be pulling your boat thru knee deep water to the landing.

Please don't ask how I know this.
I will keep you very helpful guys informed of the post mortum. Maybe I can help someone avoid having the fun I had yesterday afternoon.

 

[14ftgrumman]

Re: Johnsonstein died

additionally, it ran great at wot while at the dock, but when put in gear and throttled up, there seemed to be something holding back the rpm's. It didn't plane the boat the way my 1972 20HP does. Basically the same motor, I think the only difference is the exhaust.

I'd like to have several solutions for this before I replace the power head and repair, if possible the LU.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Johnsonstein died

Johnsonstein Engine: Hopefully you have a brother whose a mechanic, and not a tailor.

 

[jasper60103]

Re: Johnsonstein died

yea, sounds like you WOTed her to death.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Johnsonstein died

OK, then. So Johnson's are no good because your 37 year old one broke the first time you used it. I get it. Sorry that happened to you. Try a 72 Mercury next time, or maybe a Force or Chrysler. That oughta work out just fine.

 

[71erude]

Re: Johnsonstein died

I feel your pain. Sounds like you had the same afternoon I did yesterday when I took my Johnson 25 (1991) out and it ran perfectly for about 2000 yards and then stopped and wouldn't run any further. I ended up paddling with one of my seat covers. I got within 100 yards of the ramp, but the river current was not in my favor. I ended up mooring to a navigation buoy and waiting an hour for someone to come by and tow me the 100 yards to the boat landing.

I don't blame the motor I'm guessing it's more the ham fisted owner who tries (in vain) to do basic maintenance but ends up breaking more than he fixes.

Despite it all I still can't wait to get back out on the water.

 

[14ftgrumman]

Re: Johnsonstein died

Not cmplaining that it died, just wondering why, and I will find out. I've 2 spare power heads and enough parts to repair lu.

Got prop off, broken drive pin- Hit something in the river to do that.

Pulled head and lower cyl is fine, metal shavings in upper and it was bone dry. Can turn engine over with breaker bar (very hard to do). I'm thinking that the upper crank seal is bad. That was never replaced when I swapped innards from scored block to this one. No scoring or gouges that I can see with out the power head off.

Please feel free to chime in with suggestions, as all are welcome.
Just keep the scarcasm out. Again, not complaining about a 37 year old motor that was patched together, just wanting to know why so I don't do it again.
No I don't have a brother, mechanic or tailor. I'm a semi retired diesl mechanic that has done my fair share of car stuff too.

CAtransplant- I've got a 37 yeat old Johnson 20HP that has served me well for the last 10 years. Would not give it up for anything.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Johnsonstein died

additionally, it ran great at wot while at the dock, but when put in gear and throttled up, there seemed to be something holding back the rpm's.

I wonder why you would run it a WOT in neutral at the dock in the first place?
Then throttle down to shift and be under way...

Do you do that to get it started, warmed up, and then go?

You shouldn't have to do that.

Seriously. I really want to know why that procedure is followed.

 

[14ftgrumman]

Re: Johnsonstein died

Wanted it to blow up at the dock, not in the middle of the river, like it did.
Hind sight being what it is, it wasn't such a good idea. It will not be repeated.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Johnsonstein died

Ah well....thanks for the reply. Too much going on here to really pinpoint "Why". for you....
Good luck in your repair.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Johnsonstein died

One other thing...I rebuilt my 1996 V6 200, and put 25 gals of premix in the starboard tank. Got to the canal, and proceeded to launch it and run it off the PORT tank....which had straight gas in it...forgot to switch fuel selector valve.
Idled out...put the throttle down, and that was all she wrote...
So, we all make mistakes....
And I really thought I had covered all possible problems...

 

[14ftgrumman]

Re: Johnsonstein died

Got it torn down.

Rod bearing went out,hammered the intake half of block to the point that it fractured the intake half and wore thru the intake half, resulting in the alum. in the cyl. Crank is history, will make a good paper weight. the only thing that could be salvaged from the internals is the lower piston.

Could it be a lack of lubrication be the underlying culprit? (in addition to my desire to have it blow up early if it was going to blow). There are lube lines that are/were connected. There was a lot of oil on top the motor, underneath the mag plate. Indication that upper crank seal is bad and was sucking air and running very lean?

I'm open to suggestions and opinions, but helpful type, not sarcastic as some have been.

Thanks

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Johnsonstein died

The sarcasm started when you called the outboard a "Johnsonstein." It went on from there. Basically, you blew up an outboard. It probably didn't cost all that much, so...

You want someone to tell you why it blew. We don't know. We have no way to know. At this point, you have a destroyed powerhead, far beyond diagnosis by anyone. We don't know why it failed. We have no way to know.

However, your testing procedure for an older outboard that's new to you probably contributed to the failure. Reving two-stroke engines with no load is a sure fire way to find the weak point in the bearings and crankshaft.

You busted a drive pin on the river, then it sounds like it went into thermal runaway. Probably, the engine far exceeded its rated RPM and old bearings simply failed. It doesn't take a lot. One roller may have failed, and there she blew.

So, it blew because it wasn't handled properly. When you have an older engine that you're trying out on the water, it just stands to reason that you baby it a bit. You wouldn't buy a 1972 MG, then start it up and rev it to its redline in neutral, I'm sure, while it's cold. It would probably throw a rod. Why would an old outboard motor be any different?

The why of how it failed was operator error.

 

[14ftgrumman]

Re: Johnsonstein died

CAtransplant-
I'd have to agree with you on both counts. Bearing failure and operator error.
That being said, I'd much rather have the bearing fail close to home than at one of my favorite lakes 75 to 100 miles from home.

As far as "Johnsonstein" I've seem them refered to as that and "JohnnyRudes".
Mine is a "Johnsonstein" because there are no Evinrude parts on it.

This was my first attempt at a complete rebuild on one of these, but I have done maintainence on my first Johnson, a CD10 and second and current 72 20HP recoil start. Replacing points, cond.,coils, impellers and rebuilt carbs on a regular basis. Have never been dissapointed with any of them.
Operator error and bearing failure.
My appoligies for not understanding the point of your sarcasm.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Johnsonstein died

A bit off topic but my brain tells me a Johnsonstein is a Johnson rebuilt with parts from several different models of an engine. Like Frankenstein.

JohnyRude i see as a Johnson from the era where Johnson and Evenrude were essentially the same motors with different stickers.

Either way I feel your pain. Pick up the parts and try again. I'm sure you'll get her running and have lots of fun enjoying the fruits of your labor.

 

[14ftgrumman]

Re: Johnsonstein died

That's exactly what I meant. Allready started. Got spare power head ready, just need gaskets.