Kentucky Plane crash

[PW2]

For the life of me, I have no idea how a pilot, flying on IFR, could possibly mistake a runway with a compass heading of 220, with one with a compass heading of 260.

I don't care how the runways were lit or not, or any other circumstance they may have encountered.

Would not the *first* pilot instrument check before takeoff be the compass heading?

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

Yes, it should have been. An "expert" was talking about it today on NPR and said that pilots, or anyone, who think they are in the right place sometimes do strange or foolish things. Like not check a compass heading or disbelieve what you see as erroneous. It was only a 40 degree difference. I wonder what piece of direction indicating equipment he looked at right before takeoff. Magnetic compass? GPS heading (could have been 40 or more degree off if he had turned sharply onto the runway). Gyroscopic compass?? It also begs the question, how could ATC miss this too?

 

[JRJ]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

I expect the cockpit tapes will help explain. Sorry for the victims and their families. Mechanically good airplanes crash due to poor handling (not always pilot error) and defective airplanes crash in spite of heroic crew efforts.

 

[PW2]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

IFR pilots are trained to trust their instruments. To my knowledge, you don't fly a jet at night on anything but IFR (certainly not VFR)

They don't start down the runway for take-off until they square themselves on the runway, and perform their final pre flight checks.

A 40 degree compass variation is a big variation, and every pilot has a detailed map of the airport in question, with the runways clearly labelled, that is part of the pre-flight check.

I too feel bad for the casualties, and I just cannot imagine how this could possibly happen. I guess the investigation will tell us something, hopefully.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

We are all only human.

The other day on my daily commute, I exited on the wrong exit. Dont know why, just wasnt paying close attention to the signs. Driven that route approximately 1000 times.

Its too bad both pilots missed the compass heading miscue.

But, you can only do so much to make planes idiot proof.

Ken

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

Yea but, the tower had to give the final command to take off.
What was the tower doing? Gone for a snack?

 

[ob]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

I was entertaining the same thought as SBN after hearing some of the prelims of the crash.I thought the final command before throttle up came from the ATC tower like "clear for takeoff" or something to that effect.Didn't the tower notice the aircraft was on the wrong runway?It is a good view from up there.A terrible preventable tragedy.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

There was only one controller on duty at the time and there are many other things they would be busy with.

Ken

 

[ob]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

I hope that's not what the towers explanation was Kiz.I mean it's not like this is LAX or Ohare at a predawn takeoff.What could possibly be more imporatant than insuring that "All" aircraft are on the proper runways for takeoff and landing?Not that the pilots don't bare some responsibility but comeon.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

A comment from the CVR:
"Wonder why the runway lights are not on"
Bingo!!!!! That would have made me double check or ask the tower.
Still a bad thing happened.
Another one crashed here yesterday. 7 on board.
Either out of Texas or Kansas.
I will find out.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

Small plane from Texas with 7 aboard crashes in eastern Kentucky

JACKSON, Ky. Officials say they have found no survivors after yesterday's crash in Kentucky of a plane traveling from Wichita Falls with seven people aboard.

A spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration in Atlanta says the twin-engine Cessna departed from Kickapoo Downtown Airport in Wichita Falls.

The crash happened in a remote and wooded area of Breathitt County yesterday afternoon, about 100 miles southeast of Lexington.

Monica Morris, administrator of the Wichita Falls airport, says the flight was piloted by Jason Christie. That's according to a report in the Wichita Falls Times Record News. Morris did not know the identities of other passengers.

A Kentucky State Police investigation indicated the flight was bound for the Wendell Ford Regional Airport in Hazard, Kentucky.

 

[Mike722]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

The news I heard this morning was the co-pilot was at the controls. If true, he will have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life.

Very sad.
Mike

FYI, I was on a plane, last fly out that did not even stop at the end of the runway to line up. Turned off taxiway and full throttle at 75% percent of the way thru the turn.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

Turned off taxiway and full throttle at 75% percent of the way thru the turn.

Yea, I've been on them when they do that. Never even occurred to me to worry about whether they were on the right runway. Guess I will now.

 

[rwise]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

leaving Dallas/Ft Wort on a flight with problems at the terminal (fuel problem) pilot was told to find a hole between two flights and go! no one is perfect, mistakes are made some cost lives, my thoughts go to the families of those on board!:'(

 

[txswinner]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

First pilot is in control and his responsibility to use the proper runway. Final preflight is to match compass to runway, all are numbered with large numbers and lighted on side.

ATC, often clears you for takeoff before you reach the active runway. It is not his responsibility to drive the plan, and this is not his fault.

This one will go down as pilot error and probably is correct call. Even if co-pilot is on controls, the Pilot holds the final responsibility. This was an avoidable accident and loss of life.

We can not go back and must learn from this. Probably should have advised of common taxiway in Notice to Airman.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

FAA acknowledges it violated staffing policies with only one air traffic controller on duty at airport when Comair jet crashed Sunday, killing 49 people.

So, does this mean that the FAA is gona take the heat on this one?

 

[txswinner]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

Hope they probably have governmental immunity.

 

[DJ]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

Ken explained, entirely.

We're HUMAN.

There is absolutely no sign of product failure. Mark my words, the plane maker will pay dearly. Why? Just because they built it.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

I predict Bombardier will not pay a dime of damages this time. I'm guessing the airline and FAA will each take an approximately equal hit. Maybe weighted more to the airline.

Total loss will be $120 million to $150 million.
Wouldn't be surprised to learn less than 80% covered by insurers maybe low as 50%.
I don't recall the FAA being at fault in a catastrophic accident before. I guess in wrongful death the government pays like anybody else.

The controller will have his own personal hell to live through as will the first officer.

 

[DJ]

Re: Kentucky Plane crash

Total loss will be $120 million to $150 million.
Wouldn't be surprised to learn less than 80% covered by insurers maybe low as 50%.
I don't recall the FAA being at fault in a catastrophic accident before. I guess in wrongful death the government pays like anybody else.

The controller will have his own personal hell to live through as will the first officer.

It doesn't matter who was and wasn't insured. We proved that after 9/11. We made allot of people very rich, via government decree.

If a jury orders them (Bombardier) to pay, they will. If the jury doesn't, an activist judge will.

Welcome to doing business, in these times.