Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

RalphHeilig · Aug 1, 2004

Hallo I have a Problem with my 2004 Yamaha HPDI. The I go into heavier waves, sometimes the oil warning sign comes up, the Engine shut dows for a second and then after it its running normal and the sign i gone. Has anyone the same Promblem? Maybe it's a kind of Protection when the boat is jumping too hard. It happend the first time 2 dasy ago (the Engine has now about 60h). I dont know if it is normal or not. The first 50 hours I had no such problems. But now when i go through some heavier waves it happena all time. Is it possigle that it is some electronic contact problem, that some parts are loosing contact when the boat is "bunped". I'm happy for every help! Ralph, from Austria

rodbolt · Aug 2, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

that is not normal. do you get an audible as well as visual alarm? how big are the waves and what is the hull speed? if the engine oil tank is almost low its possible that can happen. you may need to test the engine tank switch to insure its transferring oil correctly. good luck and keep posting

RalphHeilig · Aug 2, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hallo Rodbolt, thank You for Your reply. The waves are not very big. About 0,5m and the hull speed is about 30 - 40 mph. It always depends on. The interesting is that it is running fine most time, only when it's "bumping" harder, then the engine is shutting down, the "low oil" sign is comig up short for one or two senconds and after it (lets say 2 or 3 seconds) ist running normal. I made 150 miles last Weekend and it happend about 4-6 Times and only in the moment the boat "bumps" into the water after a wave. I checked the Outer and inner tank. The inner one is on the max sign and the outer one is nearly full. The Engine is a HPDI VMAX 200 Year 2004.

RalphHeilig · Aug 3, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hallo Rod, I forgot to answer one of Your questions. I only get a visual Alarm (the "low oil" sign on the digital Instrument and also for a second the "Engine" sign (which normaly says - contact a Yamaha Mechanic). Is it possible that the oil is coming up to the top of the inner Tank and therefore the sensor reacts so fast and gives the low oil warning? Thank Ralph

rodbolt · Aug 3, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

its possible the sensor in the engine tank is to sensitive. or a wire is chafed. I am not familiar with the "engine" lamp. the oil lamp should be just a set of bars. the low oil in the remote tank should light one bar segment. if the remote oil tank is full and the engine oil tank gives a low indication you should have 3 flashing bars indicating a system malfunction.are the gauges 2004 also? also when discussing the oil tanks,inner and outer are confusing, lets use engine and remote. makes life easier. I am currently fighting a similar problem with a F225 that will give a visual oil alarm when bouncing through the inlet but the computer does not register it. can you duplicate the symptoms with any regularity? good luck and keep posting

RalphHeilig · Aug 3, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hallo Rod, yes I can duplicte the symptoms any time when I hit the boat harder over a wave. It seems like the engine oil sensor is giving a very short "low oil" signal in the moment the boats comes back into the water AFTER the wave. (Not in the moment its out of the wave).

rodbolt · Aug 3, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

then make sure the engine oil tank is full and run it brifly with the engine oil tank dissconnected. be aware that you will have no alarms and no oil transfer. you should have enough oil in the full engine oil tank for aboiut 30 min of WOT,better yet hook up a remote tank so you feed it 50-1 pre-mix. what type of gauge do you have? like I say I have never seen one with an "engine" symbol. that will eliminate the engine tank sensor as the culprit. good luck and post back on that gauge.

RalphHeilig · Aug 3, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hallo Rod, I have the two digital gauges. I understand Your question concerning the "engine" symbol. I was just looking at the online Owner's Manuals at the Yamaha Web Page. On these Manuals there was also no Engine sign found. The Problem I have is that my owner Manual (its a european one) is on the boat (it in Croatia) and I will be there just next week. On my Manual the sign is shown. I'm sorry but I think the first part of Your Instruction is missing or I don't understand it. Do You mean I should run the baot with the engine Oil tank diconnected and an 1:50 Premix? There are a lot of warnings not to run the Engine with pre mix. Thank You for Your Help! Ralph

rodbolt · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

hello well on the HPDI its not real good to run on premix for anylenth of time. however I have done it for testing purposes for breif periods when dealing with oiling problems. but if you will insure the engine tank is full then run it with the oil level sensor disconnected and see if you can duplicate the problem. just be very aware that you will have no transfer and no low level alarms or safty modes. the overheat will still operate as designed.if you can post a picture of the "engine" symbol I would like to see it. sometimes the international market has different products than the USA market.I am going back to Venezueala in december,maybe in october as well and I am also planning a trip to Lituainia. good luck and if you need more info post me back. its getting to be a long thread

rodbolt · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

hello again I was also wondering if it could be the water in fuel alarm. its a funny symbol on the tach face. I have seen riggers leave the white/red wire in the bilge and the water sloshing over it can trigger the visual and not the audible.

RalphHeilig · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hallo Rod, first off all I wan't to thank You very much for Your engagement. It's not normal that people invest there time for helping others. I would like to give You answers, the only Problem is, that I see the Engine the next time next Friday. I will then check all Your advises and will post You the Results. So if You have any more Ideas I'm glad. I will come back next week or the week later. Again. Thank You very much!!

RalphHeilig · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hallo Rod, I found a page where the digital gauges are shortly discribed. http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/marine/index.htm?accessories.asp I think there where 3 things: 1) Low oil level warning (indicated by binking bars) 2) A Symbol on the upper left (which i was interpreting as oil low level sign). I cant find the Symbol in the internet. But maybe it was the "water in fuel" Symbol. 3)A Symbol as deicribed as "check Engine". I also could not find the Symbol in the net. Could it be a electronical Problem of some badly fixed cables? Ralph

rodbolt · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

hello you can try running it with the water detection circuit disabled by unplugging the connector at the engine filter, if your boat has the fuel management gauge then near the sender for that is a white wire with a red tracer and a bullet connector. some early motors used this wire to go to the detection switch under the hood. later models incorperated it into the wiring harness. the overheat visual alarm can be triggered erratically with no audible. to dissconet it look at the harness that is a 4 pin with black gray orange andpink about 2 inches away will be a bullet connector on the gray wire. if you dissconect it that disables the over heat visual indicate. try to describe exactly where the visual indicate your getting is and does your tach have the hour meter function built in as well ? good luck and keep posting

RalphHeilig · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hi Rod, thank You for Your tipps. I don't have a fuel management gauge. I think it is now time that I do the tests on the boat. As I wrote before, I will be on the Boat on Friday next week (I'm making holidays for two weeks with my family then). I hope I can find the Problem early. I don't wan't to spend my whole holidays in finding the bug. Since I'm living in Vienna (Austria) it's a 6 hour drive to Croatia. But beside our Problem: Croatia is a beautiful boating area. It has hundreds of Islands and a beautiful Water. My Wife and my daugther love to be there. I tried to find the possibility to add You a Photo (of the Boat and the engine "you" are working on) , but I did not find a Possibility in this forum. So, I will try to fix it at the End of next week. (It will be my first job). I then will send You the results. I will take my mobile and the notebook with me so I can get a mobile Internet connection. Thats not quite easy in Croatia. Are You online sometime between 13. August an 20. August? Rod, one thing I'm thinking about: When I left the boat last weekend, I shut off the battery main switch. It's a main switch where I can switch from battery 1 to 2 or off. I recogniced that when I turn it between the Off and 1 Position there is no more resistance. It's hard to describe but You know when You turn the switch it normaly "klicks" into the new position. I always run the boat with the battery 1 position. The switch is working fine between off and battery 2 position. Now just my idea was if it could be possible that the switch is loosing contact to the battery for a millisecond when I bump into the wave. Could this also cause this symptom? Ralph

rodbolt · Aug 5, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

yes it could be. the early HPDI motors had the chafe sleeve on the main power feed from the starter terminal to the main relay pinched between the starter lug and the ring terminal causing an intermittant power loss. normally this will cause the tach to momemtarily blank out. I just fix a 32 regulator with a pair of F225's that had loose battery cables causing random momentary enigine cut outs. HPDI and F225 engines use a battery powered ign system. if you lose the connection you lose the ignition. I will most likely be around on those dates. I will try to look for you. any idea of the time difference between here and there? I am on the mid atlantic east coast of the US.I can look it up on the net. what part of croatia? I have been invited to lituania this winter. I may try to go. sounds like a beautiful place. maybe they need a yamaha tech

? good luck and keep posting

RalphHeilig · Aug 8, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hi Rod, I ordered the service Manula from Yamaha Austria and the suplementary Service Manual to help me find the bug next week. They just sent me the Supplementary Service Manual (68L-28197-ZA-AX). Do You know if this manula contains also all Informations of the Service manual also or should I get it extra? I think i don't get it till thusday when I leave to Croatia. I wanted to get if as a PDF but they dont have it. Do You know if a PDF Version is somewhere avaliable? So rod you said you wan't to come to lituania. I have not been there but I heard it should be beautifull. They got members of EU in may. If you are in wintertime in europe you must go skiing. Austria is famous for it's skiing areas. Keep me informed about Your plans. I will be in Marina Punat on the Island of Krk next Weekend. (http://www.marina-punat.hr) Ralph I keep posting

RalphHeilig · Aug 9, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hi Rod, I called Yamaha again. They will send me the paper version of the service manual today. They said that they are not allowed to send the PDF from the CD, which I understand.

rodbolt · Aug 9, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

I still cannot find any info on a "engine" light on the digital tach. I am wondering if your getting a visual for water in the fuel. look at the engine filter. if the red ring or the black plastic float is up you have water in the filter. if the filter is clean you can eliminate it by temporarily dissconnecting it and retesting. good luck and keep posting. I should be about on those dates

RalphHeilig · Aug 30, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

Hi Rod, I'm back from Holidays. Sorry but I could not get a Internet connection in my harbor. I have tested everything. Also I got contact to a good Yamaha Engineer who checked all sensors and Computer entries. Result: Oil sensor working fine Water in fuel sensor working fine No entires in the computer The engine shut down still exists. During the day I was at the Yamaha engineer there where no waves to reproduce the Problem. I have now viewed exactly what happens in the moment of the shutdown: - The low oil waring (3 bars) are blinking (without buzzer!) - The water in fuel sign in blinking (without buzzer!) - the engine sign comes up (this is a little sign which looks like a motor) - as I told You in my Owner manul it documented as "engine warning - contact your yamaha engineer" - The rpm shows 0 rpm It looks for me like short electrical disconnection. I have now some Ideas: Maybe - the Battery switch - the stop switch - the key switch I've now contacted my dealer to resolve the Problem. He said he will try to do his best. So, again thank You for your help. It must be a strange Problem. I belive its something simple with big results. In 99,5% the Engine is running pefect. For the Yamaha Engineer this symptoms with all the warings blinking without buzzer where unknown. Maybe You know what could cause this symptoms. Greetings from Vienna

rodbolt · Aug 30, 2004

Re: Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

How long does the blinking last? how long does the tach display go to zero? I would ask the local dealer to install what we call a breakout box. its a box rigged with an ign harness and a tach to bypass all your hull rigging. I am wondering if you are experiencing a momentary loss of power from the keyswitch to the main relay. if you do the tach with go back to its self test just like you first turned the key on. also the fuel pump and ign system will shut down. the computer will think its a normal keyswitch action and not set any codes. try running it with the fuel pressure gauge attached to the VST and see if you also have a momentary drop in rail pressure. that would indicate if the main or fuel pump relays were dropping out. if its not blowing fuses you dont have a short. I am suspecting a momentary power feed loss to the ign switch or to the main relay from the ign switch. the relay also has a ground circuit that could be loose. did anyone check the engine power take off wire at the starter soliniod? I have seen several that the black chafe sleeve was interfering with a good contact. good luck and keep posting with this

Low oil Warnin when bumping in waves

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