marine paint or bust

opalized

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
31
OK Guys
I was leaning toward automotive paint to go over the original gel coat, i bought alittle 17' boat and it had a severely chips scratched and gouged YELLOW paint over original brown metal flake gel coat. I scrapped the yellow of the top and side 2/3 of the boat, and then i went looking for paint to repaint it a bright yellow then i planned to clear coat over the yellow with a copper metal flake (Virgin at this), the more i read the more i find this might not work so well, first it appears in painting metal flake over yellow the boat ends up the color of the metal flake? with no sign of the yellow below, second im not finding the marine paints i feel confident i wont be redoing in a couple years or less depending on sun exposure.
Ive been looking at re gel coating recently,question one do i have to remove all old gel coat to do this, and question 2 any have experience with gel coat what brand and what's the best ingredients for spraying, im really not to interested in rolling or brushing seems so backwards
So please pipe in here and steer me clear of my disaster.

Thanks for all input Dave
 

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saildan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
264
Re: marine paint or bust

:rolleyes:
OK Guys
I was leaning toward automotive paint to go over the original gel coat, im not finding the marine paints i feel confident i wont be redoing in a couple years or less depending on sun exposure.
Automotive will give you the widest range of color and special effects options, but a good custom paint shop could likely mix up custom colors from any marine paint as well.

Automotive paints have slightly different expansion characteristics for moving with a metal substrate instead of fiberglass.

You're not confident with the top brands like Awl-Grip, Interlux, Pettit, and Epifanes - what problems did you see with these?

There's always Imron-Marine if you are more comfortable with a name familiar in automotive circles.

DuPont Marine
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/b/mar/home.html

DuPont Marine - Products (Imron -Polyurethane, Corlar - Epoxy)
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/b/mar/s/product/marine.html

DuPont Marine - Colors (looks like more choices than anyone)
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/images/b/mar/MarineSelector-LG.jpg



Ive been looking at re gel coating recently, question one do i have to remove all old gel coat to do this,

and question 2 any have experience with gel coat what brand and what's the best ingredients for spraying,

[1] Yes, there's a limit to the thickness gelcoat can be built up to. Overthick and it cracks off more easily, underthick and it blisters. It's an art, but they also use precision measuring to insure proper application so it's a high-tech art.

[2] Gelcoat is polyester (fiberglass) resin, formulated to be a UV resistant cosmetic top coat, without the imbeded fiber reinforcement.

Gelcoat is a little softer than paint so it dings before it cracks and chips. It's much thicker so it can be compounded more times before re-application is called for.

Gelcoat is sprayed using a special spray gun different from paint equipment.


Gelcoat_Gunwith%20armwhitebackground_thumb.jpg
...........................
gelcoat-spray-gun-for-boatyards-and-shipyards-186733.jpg


Cup style - home user - Harbor Freight ............ Catalyst mixing gun - Pro

Gelcoat Application - Brief Overview
http://www.fiberglasswarehouse.com/gelcoat_application.php
- and
http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/re-gelcoating.htm


Many suppliers - shop around

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=39

http://www.bottompaintstore.com/Gelcoat_c95.htm

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/product_catalog.html

Like paint, your attention to prep (and following the specific brand's instructions) will determine the quality of the job.

.
 

86RajunCajun

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
218
Re: marine paint or bust

Just remember one thing! No matter what paint you decide to go with, the only real aspect that will totally ruin your paint job, regardless of if you buy a 150$ quart of paint or a 50$ quart, and that is PREP! With either paint or Gelcoat.

Your prep has to be excellent to gain a fully lustrous and quality paint job. Youll need to search a bit about paint prep and methods of application. Spraying with an air brush can give VERY good results if the paint is used correctly. Make sure if you spray you follow guidelines on thinning the paint if needed to ensure even distribution and to prevent puddling and runs etc.

A roll and tip method has turned out some stunning results as well for a few I boats members. You should search also the phrase "roll and tip" to see these boats as i cannot remember exactly where the threads are at the moment.

Either way like i said, prep is king and you should really focus on that aspect only until you have made certain that the entire area to be painted is sanded, filled, sanded again as needed up to at least 1500 grit starting at 220 and advancing to 1500. Wet sand past 600 grit for the smoothest results. Clean with acetone before your base coat of primer, and make sure youy use it! At least 2 coats of primer sanded between coats to 1500 grit, then you can apply your first coat of color. Again be sure to sand to 1500 grit and clean VERY well. You can use a claybar to make sure you get every imperfection out of the surface before you apply color. Apply at least 2-3 coats of your color and then if you use automotive paint apply a clear coat to cap the color off, but do not sand before you apply the clear. Sand between coats of color as well for the best results altho this is sometimes not needed with stuff like Easypoxy etc. Quality paint lays down rather well.

This is by no means the absolute and most concrete method ever, but i spend a lot of time on prep work for all my paint jobs, and while i may not be the best at wood working LOL, i always seem to get a damn fine paint job on every project!

Gelcoat is pretty much the same and requires the same amount of prep to get the best bond and texture. Follow the same guidelines for the best results.

Good luck with yours which ever way you decide to take it tho! Post pics!

Ill be starting my paint work likely this week so ill be updating my thread as well.

Take care!
RC
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
1,790
Re: marine paint or bust

Because you said you were inexperienced I best warn you that the paint used for things like boats is NOT like the paint you did your bedroom with. You must have an approved resporator to avoid the fumes. No joke. Read the caution label on the can.
 

opalized

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
31
Re: marine paint or bust

Just remember one thing! No matter what paint you decide to go with, the only real aspect that will totally ruin your paint job, regardless of if you buy a 150$ quart of paint or a 50$ quart, and that is PREP! With either paint or Gelcoat.

Your prep has to be excellent to gain a fully lustrous and quality paint job. Youll need to search a bit about paint prep and methods of application. Spraying with an air brush can give VERY good results if the paint is used correctly. Make sure if you spray you follow guidelines on thinning the paint if needed to ensure even distribution and to prevent puddling and runs etc.

A roll and tip method has turned out some stunning results as well for a few I boats members. You should search also the phrase "roll and tip" to see these boats as i cannot remember exactly where the threads are at the moment.

Either way like i said, prep is king and you should really focus on that aspect only until you have made certain that the entire area to be painted is sanded, filled, sanded again as needed up to at least 1500 grit starting at 220 and advancing to 1500. Wet sand past 600 grit for the smoothest results. Clean with acetone before your base coat of primer, and make sure youy use it! At least 2 coats of primer sanded between coats to 1500 grit, then you can apply your first coat of color. Again be sure to sand to 1500 grit and clean VERY well. You can use a claybar to make sure you get every imperfection out of the surface before you apply color. Apply at least 2-3 coats of your color and then if you use automotive paint apply a clear coat to cap the color off, but do not sand before you apply the clear. Sand between coats of color as well for the best results altho this is sometimes not needed with stuff like Easypoxy etc. Quality paint lays down rather well.

This is by no means the absolute and most concrete method ever, but i spend a lot of time on prep work for all my paint jobs, and while i may not be the best at wood working LOL, i always seem to get a damn fine paint job on every project!

Gelcoat is pretty much the same and requires the same amount of prep to get the best bond and texture. Follow the same guidelines for the best results.

Good luck with yours which ever way you decide to take it tho! Post pics!

Ill be starting my paint work likely this week so ill be updating my thread as well.

Take care!
RC

Rajun
I want to thank you for the insight. the above and below post to my questions have cleared up my questions unlike any of the paint providers i e-mail without a single response as to why i should select there paint for my project.
Outstanding answers to all of you.
I have decided on supermarinepaint, i ordered the etching primer last night, and will begin the prep process this weekend, i spent all last weekend scraping the yellow yuck of, then i sanded with 100 grit till the original gel coat was totally exposed, except for a couple choice areas ie bunker and gae cluster steering wheel area, i had yet to remove those items or move the boat on the trailer for access.
Now you indicated, i need to sand back up to 1500 grit, prior to using the etching primer??? Ive always thought going to 220 before primer was enough, this is incorrect?
Now once i have the boat back up to 1500 grit, i spray the etching primer upon completely cleaning the boat to including washing with aggresive soap and water then drying, and wiping with acetone, making sure to wipe dry as i go, then tack raggin every inch, and then spray the etching primer with light coats repeated as it flashes till it is a uniform covering. then spot putty and sand again from 220 to 1500 grit, then the cleaning process again?

Now at this point i would use acetone again once washed with soap and water??
now once washed wiped dried, and tack ragged im ready for the base coat, spraying light coats allowing to flash as i move around the boat respraying till a uniform coat is applied, then i would be applying a clear coat with metalflake 3coats, now i wouls allow it to dry, at which point i would be masking to apply a stripe in a different color of metal flake, once completed remove the masking and apply 2 coats of clear coat over the total boat.

Again Thanks for all you're time in my endevour

Sincerely
Dave
P.S. This is my one and only attempt at painting it was 1997, i built this car from the ground up in 4 months Stripped uncovered terrible sins, body work, painted upolstered all mechanical, the paint still looks like the day i sprayed it, but the car almost never see's the light of day, ive put about 300 miles on it in 14 years, Hot August Nights only
 

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opalized

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
31
Re: marine paint or bust

Thanks to everyone who has responded
Specially SailDan, and Rajun, outstanding posts

I've ordered my primer, an etching primer from Super Marine Paints
Supermarine Etching Primer (SM-664D)

I'm still up in arms about the base coat clear coat
it will either be
Revolution (SM-1000)
This has a much better color selection, which i havent decide on yet either

Or
Supermarine Aqueous Epoxy (SM-3000)
which im really leaning toward, i love the water soluble part, but the color choice is limited, it is 10.00 bucks a gallon cheaper which really doesnt make a squat when you think about it

So love to hear from anyone regarding my choices, since ive ordered the primer, im one to beleive its best to use product made to perform together. So once i spray the primer, im stuck with my choice unless i want to sand the whole boat back to gel coat and start over, which i really dont want to do.

hAPPY BoaTING tHANKS aGAIN FOR ALL THE HELP

sINCERELY
dAVE
Pictures to follow
I'll throw in a couple pics of the bayliner work i did last spring
 

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opalized

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
31
Re: marine paint or bust

You're not confident with the top brands like Awl-Grip, Interlux, Pettit, and Epifanes - what problems did you see with these?

My boat is a trailer boat, will rarely stay in the water more than a wekend at a time, so lot of trailering, and these paints seem like salt water open ocean marine paints, im looking for show boat paint, ok so my boat willnever be show boat quality, im unsure of there hardening qualities, not to say they dont, i have ZERO experience int his arena.
I know automotive show car quality paint jobs, and based on the paint on the boat in question a aftermarket, (not factory gel coat paint) im gun shy.
After reading another post tonight about supermarine, im back to the drawing board, im gonna have to rexamin you're choices for starts. I didnt like the post on supermarine paint at all unfortunately, i thought i was moving forward, but thats ok, i have a couple hundred hours of sanding left if im to do as instructed by the pro's here, which is ok, if im gonna do something, im gonna do it to the best of my ability at least, no giving up, thats for kids and gurls

Dave
 

saildan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
264
Re: marine paint or bust

You're not confident with the top brands like Awl-Grip, Interlux, Pettit, and Epifanes - what problems did you see with these?

My boat is a trailer boat, will rarely stay in the water more than a wekend at a time, so lot of trailering, and these paints seem like salt water open ocean marine paints
I never got that impression. These are the brands of topside paints (all around paint for trailer boats) that are widely seen on lake boats across the country. Check out West Marine and Jamestown Distributors for a wide range of commonly used paint products.


im looking for show boat paint, ok so my boat willnever be show boat quality, im unsure of there hardening qualities, not to say they dont, i have ZERO experience int his arena.
I know automotive show car quality paint jobs, and based on the paint on the boat in question a aftermarket, (not factory gel coat paint) im gun shy.

That "show quality" (boats or cars) takes two things, one - a back seat full of Hooter's models to distract from any flaws and two, the willingness to (a) always pamper (the boat) and (b) touch-up and even re-paint at the first sign of degrading - next week, next month, next year - I don't matter - if that's what it takes to maintain appearances.

Show stuff either sees very little real action - it's just for show, or sees a lot of action and gets super-maintained so it always looks great. If your pockets ain't that deep and your back seat is filled with kids and wake-runner toys, go for the rugged paint that looks good, just from a few steps further back.


After reading another post tonight about supermarine, im back to the drawing board, im gonna have to re-examin you're choices for starts. I didnt like the post on supermarine paint at all unfortunately, i thought i was moving forward
Every paint probably has it's critics. Do your proper research and verify everything you hear, good or bad. Otherwise you will end up paralyzed by opinions.

My first question is always - did the person criticizing the product read, understand, and follow all the instructions.

You did notice in the other post the critics failed to comment on there awareness of SuperMarine's information:
Aside from spraying, which offers the best film thickness control, rolling is often the best way to achieve the recommended wet film thickness, 2 mils [0.002"] WFT (Wet Film Thickness). The recommended DFT is 3.4 mils. Applications applied too thickly may not adhere or level properly, run, sag and take days, or even weeks to cure. Always adhere to the manufacturers recommended WFT and DFT (Dry Film Thickness)!

Allow top coat film to cure thoroughly before allowing it to enter full service duty. The recommended minimum cure time is 7 days under most conditions. DO NOT allow newly applied paint to get wet for a minimum of 48 hours. The dry cured film may be wet sanded and buffed to remove runs and blemishes.


... but thats ok, i have a couple hundred hours of sanding left if im to do as instructed by the pro's here
Remember, this advice is generic, the paint and primer you select might say a little different approach is called for. Don't work too far ahead without matching your efforts to the exact product you choose.

.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
71,130
Re: marine paint or bust

Automotive paints have slightly different expansion characteristics for moving with a metal substrate instead of fiberglass.

??? Huh,..????? I'm callin' Bullship....
 

saildan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
264
Re: marine paint or bust

??? Huh,..????? I'm callin' Bullship....
OK, I'll buy that too. It's just one of the reasons companies give for having a marine topside finish listed separetly from their automotive or aircraft products.

Of course that's a thin veil, we can all plainly see there are car, boat, and plane skins made from many different materials.

Companies give other reasons too -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - cut here - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  • They are all more durable than one another. :eek:
  • They comply with metals pollution laws (of course they all must)
  • They have the most popular color selection. (no objective evidence given)
  • Tastes Great - Less Filling
  • Better UV resistance (no objective evidence given)
  • Better Moisture resistance (no evidence given - Harrumph - trade secret, you know)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - cut here - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Print out this page, cut out list, hang on dart board, throw dart, choose rationalization of the day.

I'm sure you can find more without making too much effort.

Every so often a boating Zine publishes a fence post test - samples properly applied to patches on a board, left out in the weather for x months or years.

There's an entire web page devoted to simply using exterior house paint. (I do wonder if the guys house is done in metal-flake, candy apple - and how long he floats it each week)

What criteria do you use to make a paint type selection?




.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
71,130
Re: marine paint or bust

What criteria do you use to make a paint type selection?

Ayuh,... I use ONLY 2-pt Urethanes... With Excellent results btw...
I get it at my local Napa, who's a Martin Seynor dealer...
Prizim is their name for the line I buy... Harder than Nails,+ lasts Forever... Both the paint,+ the Shine...

I shot this 1, just a year ago,+ it sat in the St. Lawrence River from a week after, til November...
100_4396.jpg


This is a few days After sitting in the water for a Full season...
100_4563.jpg


100_4562.jpg


100_4566.jpg


Btw,... That's Just the Paint,.... No sandin', No buffin', No waxin'...
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,130
Re: marine paint or bust

Ayuh,... Donno....
The ONLY place I've ever seen "Acid Wash" was in the Truckstop Truck Washes...

They'd spray it, generally onto any Aluminum,+ powerwash it off...
I'm sure there's over-spray onto Painted surfaces,+ I never heard any complaints about the paint fallin' off...
 

opalized

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
31
Re: marine paint or bust

remember, this advice is generic, the paint and primer you select might say a little different approach is called for. Don't work too far ahead without matching your efforts to the exact product you choose.

.[/QUOTE]

Generic is white stuff in a pal thats called milk but done come from a cow

The responces here come from guys in the trenches for the most part that have laid the money down and done the job
I value that advise.

Dave
 

leisjohn

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
47
Re: marine paint or bust

You may want to look at Supermarine's Revolution(SM-1000) at www.supermarinepaint.com. This stuff can be used above and below the waterline. It can be sprayed, Rolled or brushed. Not a bad price when you figure the coverage area.
 

rolander

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
89
Re: marine paint or bust

Here is a picture of my bro in laws boat, we used automotive paint on that and it turned out great. Been doing body work for 15 years used auto paint on many boats in my days 85 aluminum starcraft 18 foot OB
 

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Chuck Gibson

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 13, 2005
Messages
123
Re: marine paint or bust

Bond-o,
I'm impressed with your boat paint job. What kind of primer did you use? Was it a surfacing primer? If I use a surfacing primer applied thick and then sand it smooth would it be necessary to repair the gel coat cracks underneath it?
 

opalized

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
31
Re: marine paint or bust

He Guys i posted another post under Ooooooooops there went my transom

I was cleaning up today after working for a bit last night and put a screw driver through the transom removing the screws to the electric fuel pump 5 hours later 80% of my transom was gone, and 40% of my floor, major rot, so i gotta run a rottatiller to a friend in the morning then im going over to the shop air compressor and removing the remainder of the transom, and the remainder of the floor. and foam underneath

Will Lowes or home depot exspanding foam in a can work to replace the foam im scrapping out, it appears like expanding foam.

If i could ever get this darn thing clean, i could get back to the painting part, well someday, i cant paint till the core boat is in tip top shape, im only doing this once in my life on this boat anyways.

I got my supermarine etching primer yesterday, and planned to spend the day completeing my sanding to get my first coat of primer on. ON hold now got to finish the floor now first and finish my clean up.

Thanks Again to everyone

Dave
 
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