Merc 650 power tilt and trim

[reelfishin]

I have a super clean 65HP merc 650 that I would like to convert to power tilt and trim. Has anyone ever done this on an older Merc? Can I take the Power tilt set up from any other motors? I found used mid sections from both a 4cyl 40HP and one from a 115 inline 6 that I can get fairly reasonable, but I am not sure if any of these would work. I looked at a buddies later 50HP with what looks to be an add on system that replaces the two gas cylinders that are there now, but the bracket on the 40 HP appears to have a single internal cylinder?
This motor is of little use to me without power tilt and trim, so I either need to add it or find another motor. The boat on which I plan to use it on is set up so as that it's nearly imposible to reach the motor from inside the boat without climbing out onto the transom or into the splash well, and even then the motor is hard to tilt and reach to lock upwards in the water.

 

[The-Machinist]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

Check these out, they are way easier, and will probably cost less in the long run.
http://www.iboats.com/Marine_Store/dm/prod_id.13581

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

I looked at the CMC kits, they want over $615 for one to hold a larger motor and they both set the motor rearward and add extra stress to thet transom. The transom is solid but not very heavy duty. I never liked the added stress that those plates create.
The boat is 35 years old, as is the motor, I can pick up a good used power tilt motor sans the powerhead for a few hundred dollars. The CMC kits cost more than I paid for the boat and motor combined. This is a low budget fishing boat for inshore use. I run in some shallow areas and just need the ability to trim up at times and lift the motor on and off the trailer.

 

[Smig]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

Take a look at this PT&T Manual. It is the installation manual for an OEM add on kit. The kits aren't available anymore (unless you get lucky and find one sitting around) but it should help you understand what is going on. You can find the parts on ebay.

There have been several threads lately about adding OEM PT&T and the CMC units.

Smig

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

Smig, from the way I read those instructions it leads me to believe that the same kit fits both the larger and smaller motors?
I have access to to both, but the smaller motor, a 40 HP has it's tilt and trim completely contained within the bracket, it doesn't have the two larger external cylinders as on the larger motor. The 115 looks like the kit in the pics. It looks like I would still need to find the onboard pump unit, as that is not with the parts motor and most likely stayed with the boat. It looks like the standard Mercruiser tilt/trim pump? If so I have a few of those here, I'd just have to make up new lines.
Didn't Mercury offer power tilt and trim back then? It seems that all of the one's I've seen are without. The only one I have seen in use around here was on a smaller boat with a 50HP and that was a lot newer.

 

[Smig]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

Yes, the larger and smaller motors used the same kits - the only difference was in some of the mounting hardware (there was actually a separate adapter kit for the 500 & 650 - I included the label and diagrams with the instructions.) The 40 that you are seeing is a newer style PT&T and doesn't fit on the older motors.

The pump is similar to the older i/o ones the only difference being in the manifold - the mercruiser is a two-hose system whereas the outboard is a four-hose system. Every once in a while, the 4 hose manifold shows up on ebay...

I don't know the history of PT&T...We'll have to wait for someone with deeper knowledge than I to come along.

Smit

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

The main reason I need it is simply due to the fact that I can't reach the motor to tilt it without getting in the water. I can't get enough leverage on it to pull it over center and to hold it there to lock it. The splashwell is low and about 30" front to back, and the seat backs on each side make climbing over a pain. I'm 6'3" tall and 275 lbs, and the rear deck moans with me kneeling on it. I don't think it was made o support weight. Part of the problem is that the top of the motor is actually lower than the front of the splash pan, and there's more of the motor's weight below the bracket than above.

Not to mention that being able to trim out the boat will no doubt save some fuel too.
I fish into late December, and getting into or even near going into the water is out of the question.

I have a pump from a stern drive, but it has only one pressure line and one return hose. The rams on the Merc 115 Inline 6 are tee'd together, then there's a single braided hose about 24' long on each side that's been cut off. The I/O pump is complete and came from an Alpha 1 about 1980, if it's only a matter of hydraulic lines and making up a manifold to match the motor, that's no biggie. I have full access to a full machine shop and can fabricate just about anything.

The lack of tilt and trim on most older Mercs is what has kept me away from them over the years, it seems that nearly everyone I see, at least in good condition are without tilt and trim, while other makes seemed to be more common with it. On most smaller motors and smaller boats I don't care either way, but on the heavier motors or certain boats it's almost a must.

If the 115 unit will work I'll grab that and start making the conversion on this 650, the pump sounds like it can be converted to work. I can make myown hoses here so long as I can find matching ends.

 

[Wellwater]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

I have had a 650 and I believe it is the same as an 850 as far as the trim/tilt ,I have a full system on a parts 850 with everything if it is useable for you let me know.
Brian

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

Wellwater, if yours is a complete system and in good shape let me know how much you want for it. My zip is 08360, I'm pretty far as far as shipping.
PM me with a phone number if you want.

 

[Smig]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

If I remember corectly, the only major difference will be the lower shock pin. Look at page 9 of the manuals that I posted - this is where you change out the pin. You can also look at page 2 and page 10/11 to compare the parts. On page 2, the items marked with a star or dot are different, but if you can machine, I bet you can easily modify what you take off of the 115 or the 850.

Regarding the hose, if the lines are already T'd you may be set. When I was trying to figure mine out, someone suggested using an alpha pump with a T.

Smig

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Merc 650 power tilt and trim

I looked at one today with t&t, and the pump looks like an Alpha pump with a manifold with a manual relief valve and external relays. The Alpha pump I have has the relays already built onto it. The lines are just rubber hydraulic lines that got to two stainless tees.
That motor was an 81 50HP, the pump looked aftermarket as did the tilt unit, none of it said Merc or anything on it. The one I have here had Kiekhaefer on everything. The system on the 50HP looks like it retains the original bracket and you remove the two shocks and bolt each half of the tilt bracket to each side.
I don't even think I'd have to remove the motor? I'll have the whole 1150 here soon, so if it's as simple as it looks, I'll probably be looking for another tilt and trim unit for another one I have here.