MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

[BF]

Hi,

I just found out that as of 2007, outboards that don't meet 2006 EPA spec's are banned from the Riding Mountain National Park here in my province (Manitoba). Reg, explicitly says must be 4 stroke or DFI.. Most lakes/campgrounds are in Provincial parks, and there are no reg's for those, so it is only a couple lakes out of hundreds that are affected.

What's the story in the U.S.? California has reg's I guess, but what about the state parks?

I'm particularly curious about MN, since it's close by.

Thanks

 

[CATransplant]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

MN? Not as far as I know, at least on the lakes I visit.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

Other than California, no state has state wide regulation regarding marine emissions. Individual areas in a state, that have some sort of a governing board, have/are/may regulate anything.

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

None in Minnesota so far, we don't even test automobiles.

I asked a DNR officer about this while I was chating with him this winter in my Icehouse. He said there was some chit chat about it but it will be 2012 and beyond before it would go into effect. I ponied up a few extra bucks to purchase a used 4 stroke motor to "future proof" myself just in case ( I needed a repower anyhow)

 

[Silvertip]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

Banning any style motor in Minnesota would end up with a series of public lynchings. The resort business is too much a part of the economy in this state and banning carbed two strokes would seriously affect that business, especially the smaller resorts. There are just too many families that would be hurt if forced to quit using their engines. Let's hope that if it happens, it happens in an equitable manner and with enough notice that people can make informed decisions.

 

[BF]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

I would've thought that the public outrage would've kept the ban away from here too, but it seems that the Fed's have put it in the national park anyway. There are so many thousands of older 2 strokes in service, that if there was a move to adopt this for provincial parks (where there are thousands of cottage owners) there would be mucho anger.

Having said that, maybe it'd fly if they had Loooooong phase in period.

Rancherlee... I've thought about buying a 4 stroke too... I like the idea of running a less polluting engine, and would particularly love a really quiet troller. I'm still waiting for the prices for used ones to drop a bit.

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

Banning any style motor in Minnesota would end up with a series of public lynchings. The resort business is too much a part of the economy in this state and banning carbed two strokes would seriously affect that business, especially the smaller resorts. There are just too many families that would be hurt if forced to quit using their engines. Let's hope that if it happens, it happens in an equitable manner and with enough notice that people can make informed decisions.

I don't think it will effect ALL of minnesota, but you can bet all those lakes near me by the BWCA (Boundry Waters Canoe Area) which already have a 25hp limit if they they are touching the BWCA will be 4stroke/DFI 2 stroke only lakes in the near future.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

I think that eventually, those carbed 2-strokes will all disappear. I hope it's by attrition, though, rather than by banning. Once 4-strokes or EFI 2-strokes are all that's available new, the older ones will phase themselves out.

All, that is, except for the 1950's johnnyrudes, which will all still be running fifty years from now, since they're just getting broken in.

 

[BF]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

I'm not sure about the attrition thing.. the season is so short here that OB's are killed by abuse/misuse not being worn out. Newbies to boating will probably abuse/kill their newer stuff, while people like me (who like doing my own wrench turning) will keep the old & simplier stuff alive long enough to be around for quite a few more decades. I guess over the long haul, the numbers of carb'd 2 strokes will keep getting smaller, but it'll be decades before they're gone.

My current OB's range from 1969 to 1982 (I think)... from 2 to 150 HP. Some look beat up (by previous owners), but none is any less serviceable now than when it was new, and none seems to be even close to the end of it's life.

Granted they pollute more, but sending them off to the landfill and buying newly manufactured engines (which take resources and produce pollution to manufacture and ship etc.) wouldn't be that green either. Just trading one kind of environmental impact for another it seems. I wonder how many hours I need to use my 2 strokes before I'm polluting "more" than the impact of building the 4 strokes to replace them (?). Or maybe I should just be happy that the impact happens somewhere else (Mexico or wherever), not in my lake (?). No doubt a big ban/switch over would be good for the OB industry... anyone know if they quietly lobby for the introduction of emissions reg's?

 

[CATransplant]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

No doubt a big ban/switch over would be good for the OB industry... anyone know if they quietly lobby for the introduction of emissions reg's?

I wouldn't be at all surprised. Selling new engines is what they're about. I remember going in to get a couple of parts for my old '58 Johnson 35hp. The guy in the first shop I tried basically told me he wouldn't sell me any parts for that old engine, and tried to sell me a new one, then a used one.

Fortunately, I found another dealer who helped me out with the parts I needed. Parts don't keep dealer's in business. Sales of new engines do.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: MN: are emissions reg's enforced?

I think most emissions are directed at OEM's. I really doubt that anyone checks the engines once they have been certified.

But like stated, any province, municipality, or governing agency, can do what they want to generate revenue.

Like here in Texas 18 wheelers are rated on load carrying capacity by the US GOVT. But the Texas Dept of Public safety (State Troopers) regularly check trucks, as does the county (Sheriff) I live in, as does at least one city (City Police).

Usually if they are going to bite you they put up a sign alerting you to be in compliance....usually on smaller bodies of water I would think.

Mark