Most Frustrating Experience?

[RickJ6956]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Good thing our bodies arent as conductive. You can grab a 12v battery all day long without a jolt.

Forgive me for disagreeing. Wet hands or perspiration on the hands will increase conductivity to the point at which a 12-volt battery can be deadly. Grabbing one battery post in each hand will complete the circuit directly across the heart. A 12-volt battery can deliver 80+ amps. It takes as little as 6 thousands (.006) of an amp to stop a heart.

 

[cwhite6]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

You must be like my gf who is scarred s***less to jump start a car. She about pisses her pants just holding the cables. I always tell her 12 volts isnt enough to shock you. With that said I wouldnt try sticking my tongue to it. The reason you are seeing a wrench heat up is due to the high amprage that passes through the metal wrench. If your body was as conductive as a metal wrench you would be getting a lot more than a jolt in fact you would likely be dead. Good thing our bodies arent as conductive. You can grab a 12v battery all day long without a jolt. What the above poster is probably referring to is possible a spark or heat from two live wires.

For your information, I am not scared to jump a car off. Also, I am an Electrical Engineer with my PE (Professional Engineer) license in multiple states who works in the power industry designing both high voltage (500kV) and low voltage systems. I am very well aware of why the wrenches melted and what causes electrical arcs. My comment was meant to convey that you can get sparks that are enough to make you jump with 12V batteries. Maybe not hurt you, but definitly make you jump a little. Also, the human body is conductive as it is mostly water. However, it is not as conductive as copper wire. Try telling all the folks who have died from 120VAC when the current took a path through their body and across their hearts that we are not conductive. You should not insult people on public forums unless you know the person and their background.

 

[cwhite6]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Forgive me for disagreeing. Wet hands or perspiration on the hands will increase conductivity to the point at which a 12-volt battery can be deadly. Grabbing one battery post in each hand will complete the circuit directly across the heart. A 12-volt battery can deliver 80+ amps. It takes as little as 6 thousands (.006) of an amp to stop a heart.

Most people do not realize this. Also, few realize that 120VAC kills more people every year than any other voltage. For a large portion of the population, 120VAC is right around perfect to produce the current thru their hurt that will stop it. It is in the mA range, I forget the exact number. I can't tell you how many folks I have seen licking their fingers to test 120VAC circuits. It is a matter of time.

 

[This_lil_fishy]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Most people do not realize this. Also, few realize that 120VAC kills more people every year than any other voltage. For a large portion of the population, 120VAC is right around perfect to produce the current thru their hurt that will stop it. It is in the mA range, I forget the exact number. I can't tell you how many folks I have seen licking their fingers to test 120VAC circuits. It is a matter of time.

Firefighters are trained to follow walls with the back of thier hands, as the current will cause your muscles to contract, thus pulling their hands away from the circuit. I've been zapped by 110 dozens of times, I still don't like it though.


In theory a 12v could kill you, as it's amperage that does the most damage. Consider that a starting battery can put out 600+ Amps for a short period of time. Most tazers work in the 50KV range, and only result in very few deaths.

That said, I've also experienced the hooked up by others trailer fiasco which I have posted in the trailering section. However the coles notes version: Co-worker hooks up trailer to my work truck, but never puts the pin into the receiver. Two short blocks later the drawbar pulls out of the receiver and I have 10000lbs of glass and aluminum chasing me down. Fortunately he did attach the safety brake cable with brough the whole grinding mess to a halt.


Ian

 

[ShaneCarroll]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Speaking of voltage and jolts, it doesn't matter how small a shock is, it is still a nuisance. Your typical telephone jack has 48V, and a cable television line has 60V. Not very much, but it is enough to cause some profanities to come flying out. The worst I ever got it was rewiring an electric outlet, I turned off the breaker labeled "dining room," tested with a night light, and no juice. Went to strip the wires and two of them touched, causing a huge spark, the main breaker tripped, and it sent me flying back.

Funniest thing about this scenario, after it was all over, I tested the night light in a working outlet, and guess what, the dang bulb didn't work!! I guess you can never be too safety cautious. . .

Never have I let anyone hook up my trailer, I have done other people's trailers, only because they know I check everything multiple times.

 

[zach103]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Wow, you got a jolt from a 12v power supply(battery)??? I've never heard of that before.

for real? lol.. ive had it happen to me.. stupid me for some reason i thought at that time if i unhooked the battery the engine would stop running.. musta thought it was an rc boat or something.. well learned my lesson lol

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

All people need to do is give the trailer tongue a hefty tug upwards prior to towing to make sure the ball is seated correctly. I have no clue why this is such a chore, it takes about .5 seconds.

My most frustrating boating experience was on my buddy's boat soon after he bought it. I'd been trying to convince him that a deep cycle is designed for constant draw applications like electric motors and that he had better not try to use the older crankstart battery that came with the boat. In addition he likes to run a power converter so that he can play his house sat radio system on board

Long story short: juice gone...only propulsion remaining was my canoe paddle that I brought knowing the possibilities...darkness sets in...no lights on his rig either...extremely flooded river with no apparent channel...long trip home.

He bought a deep cycle the very next day and possibly takes my advice a tiny bit more regarding boats than prior to the experience

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

I confirm that all is well and he assures me that we are fine.

in nautical terms: your the captain and your responsible.:redface:

Bet you check it yourself now tho...

 

[This_lil_fishy]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Speaking of voltage and jolts, it doesn't matter how small a shock is, it is still a nuisance. Your typical telephone jack has 48V, and a cable television line has 60V. Not very much, but it is enough to cause some profanities to come flying out. The worst I ever got it was rewiring an electric outlet, I turned off the breaker labeled "dining room," tested with a night light, and no juice. Went to strip the wires and two of them touched, causing a huge spark, the main breaker tripped, and it sent me flying back.

Funniest thing about this scenario, after it was all over, I tested the night light in a working outlet, and guess what, the dang bulb didn't work!! I guess you can never be too safety cautious. . .

Never have I let anyone hook up my trailer, I have done other people's trailers, only because they know I check everything multiple times.

RULE #1: The circuit is live, even if you just turned it off!

Ian

 

[JoLin]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

All people need to do is give the trailer tongue a hefty tug upwards prior to towing to make sure the ball is seated correctly. I have no clue why this is such a chore, it takes about .5 seconds.

Mmmm... how heavy is YOUR trailer tongue with the boat loaded on it? Mine's about 1000 lbs.

The problem with generalities is that tend to be awfully.... general

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

for real? lol.. ive had it happen to me.. stupid me for some reason i thought at that time if i unhooked the battery the engine would stop running.. musta thought it was an rc boat or something.. well learned my lesson lol

What you felt was the inductive kick from the alternator coil(s) and any other large inductive loads that kicked back when the current stopped flowing through them. This can produce thousands of volts in potential.

I'll soak my hands in salt water and then grab the battery terminals between each hand, that's how confident I am that my skin impedance is sufficient to protect me from any discernable shock.

Under the boat dash, they sometimes route the ignition signal to the tach. If the engine is cranked while your hand is under there, you could get across that connection and feel some shock. Or, as someone mentioned, if you shorted the wire to ground and produced an arc. But grabbing 12 volts- no way.

BTW- I designed ECG monitors, defibrillators and a host of other medical electronics for more than 20 years. I'm familiar with skin resistance, leakage currents and what it takes to affect the heart muscle through the skin.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Mmmm... how heavy is YOUR trailer tongue with the boat loaded on it? Mine's about 1000 lbs.

The problem with generalities is that tend to be awfully.... general

If I had to guess I'd say 200lbs. pushing down on the tongue fully loaded(my 12' tinny weighs 78lbs empty). I agree with you that your 24' fiberglass would require a different strategy(or some serious weight training) I've handled a Seaswirl 24' hardtop quite a bit and haven't ever lifted THAT tongue by hand.

I tend to think in terms of aluminum hulls...it's a sickness

 

[eli_lilly]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Regardless of whether the current is damaging or not, the explosion from fuel or hydrogen fumes is very damaging. Someone was just killed down here while screwing around with the battery connectors in their bilge while fuel fumes were present.

-E

 

[Mark42]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

If I had to guess I'd say 200lbs. pushing down on the tongue fully loaded(my 12' tinny weighs 78lbs empty). I agree with you that your 24' fiberglass would require a different strategy(or some serious weight training) I've handled a Seaswirl 24' hardtop quite a bit and haven't ever lifted THAT tongue by hand.

I tend to think in terms of aluminum hulls...it's a sickness

I got tired of trying to lift the tongue to check the ball connection. Now I just lean over and look up to make sure the fork is UNDER the ball, not over it. Sometimes I just feel for the fork without looking. Requires less of a display of strength that might shock some folks.

 

[204 Escape]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

When my mother-in-law came to visit for 3 weeks, and I couldn't set around in my underwear !!!!!! Now THAT to me is frustrating !!!!!!!

 

[lowkee]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

For your information, I am not scared to jump a car off. <chest puffing removed> My comment was meant to convey that you can get sparks that are enough to make you jump with 12V batteries. Maybe not hurt you, but definitely make you jump a little.

If you have melted so many wrenches by arcing them across battery terminals that you find it mundane and no longer scary, I would be worried to have you operate on my stuff no matter how many certs you have.

 

[thedukeryan]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

For your information, I am not scared to jump a car off. Also, I am an Electrical Engineer with my PE (Professional Engineer) license in multiple states who works in the power industry designing both high voltage (500kV) and low voltage systems. I am very well aware of why the wrenches melted and what causes electrical arcs. My comment was meant to convey that you can get sparks that are enough to make you jump with 12V batteries. Maybe not hurt you, but definitly make you jump a little. Also, the human body is conductive as it is mostly water. However, it is not as conductive as copper wire. Try telling all the folks who have died from 120VAC when the current took a path through their body and across their hearts that we are not conductive. You should not insult people on public forums unless you know the person and their background.

Sorry if you took my post the wrong way. Did not mean it as a insult. From your original post I thought you where implying that touching the +/- would light you up like a wrench. I think we both know this is not the case. Ive been shocked more time than I can count. We used to build home made tasers out of capacitors. I still consider 12v harmless unless someone can prove otherwise. I do always disconnect the battery though when working on my boat. Not due to fear of shock just to prevent me from damaging anything electrical.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Yep, makes good sense to check it yourself. You will note it isn't the passengers, baggage handlers or flight attendants doing the walk-around before an airplane leaves the ramp.

(When considering the value and objective of certain procedures, I often look for similarities in the aviation business. In that arena, the fact that mistakes make you very dead very quickly has a way of focussing the mind and helping one understand the real purpose behind most activities. )

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Most Frustrating Experience?

Here's my horror story.

I drove a 24' UHaul truck with a 6x12 trailer on the back from California to Rhode Island in the middle 70s. Uhaul told me that the balls were welded onto the hitch of all of their trucks, so I never checked the nut on the bottom of the ball.

On the last leg, I was on the Ct. turnpike at about 2 am, about 100 miles from my destination, when I hit a bump in the road. You guessed it - the ball was not welded and the nut had come off. When I hit the bump, the ball was pulled out of the hitch by the rising trailer tongue.

The 6x12 was fully loaded and swung back and forth on the safety chains a few times before they broke. At that point, the third chain set the brakes on the trailer and it ended up, wrapped up in a "3-wire" guard rail on the right shoulder of the highway.

Moral to the story: Don't listen to anyone. Check the hitch yourself!