Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

treedancer · Nov 12, 2005

> > Thought some of you would like to get a first hand report from Iraq. Don. > Most interesting first hand report from Iraq >Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:54:41 -0800 >Subject: : War intel, from owner of bullet company in FL. > >The information below if from a friend of mine. Feel free to pass it along. > >Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans and interested >people. >A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan, who >was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little >thin..), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second tour >in >early '06 and has re-enlisted early for 4 more years. He loves the >Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq. > >Jordan spent 7 months at "Camp Blue Diamond" in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache. >He saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons, >equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of interest to >you. Nothing is classified. No politics, just a Marine >with a bird's eye opinions: > >1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the >talcum >powder like sand over there. Sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel >filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version >is >more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems >also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and >weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great >in >a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor >penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso >hits cannot be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. Fun fact: >Random >autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use. > >2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine >gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of ****. Chronic >jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that's fun >in >the middle of a firefight). > >3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert >environment; but they hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for >self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad >guys hit multiple times and still in the fight. > >4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for >clearing houses to good effect. > >5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun, >developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!). >Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. >Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being >dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up >structures over there. > >6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma deuce" is >still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper, >puts their ****s in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon >in-theater. > >7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there. >Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on >one. >With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with a torso >hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the >HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45's >are being re-issued en masse. > >8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a >modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight >Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the >sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round. > >9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range >and >accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out >vehicle >suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. >Definitely here to stay. > >10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win >mag. Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have >been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on >his >third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record >for confirmed kills with OVER 100. > >11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. >and >can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an >AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as **** to wear, almost unbearable in the >summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes >for >head shots whenever possible. All the bull**** about the "old" body armor >making our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED >explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all >in >most cases. > >12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular >performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very >little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being >whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all >seen >the videos. > >13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights >are >Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban >operations. >Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it. > >I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance >are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, it's the WWII >and Vietnam weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry fighting is >frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown. > >Bad guy weapons: > >1) Mostly AK47's The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the >desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt >fed >light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy >mostly >shoots like ****. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they >are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. >(Iran, again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the >marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are told >in Jihad school that the Americans rely on technology, and can be >easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's >just say they know better now. > >2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. >Simple, >reliable and as common as dog****. The enemy responded to our up-armored >humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still >killing a lot of our guys. > > > >3) The IED: Biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet >anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan's >area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery >shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the >explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank. >Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately, >they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically >designed to penetrate armor. Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are >supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to >train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's why the attacks have >been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest >being shape charges in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the >cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they >detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war. > >4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets >(with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan's NCO's >lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire". >Jordan's base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and >rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It >did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar >teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul *** in a >matter of seconds. > >5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by >cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld >GPS units for navigation and "Google earth" for overhead views of our >positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their >explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. >They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and >laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured. > >Who are the bad guys?: > >Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate >mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are mostly >"foreigners", non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world >(and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the >knowledge >and complicity of the Syrian govt.) , and then travel down the "rat line" >which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we've been >hitting hard for the last few months. Some are virtually untrained young >Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in "sacrifice squads". >Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al >Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.) These are the guys running around murdering >civilians en masse and cutting heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are >Caucasian), are supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. (they >have been fighting the Russians for years). In the Baghdad area and south, >most of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The >Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local govt.'s, >the police forces and the Army. The have had a massive spy and agitator >network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's. Most of the >Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long ago. > >Bad Guy Tactics: > >When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked >every >time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common >earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man >teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing Ak's and RPG's >directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They get mowed down like >grass every time. ( see the M2 and M240 above). Jordan's base was hit >like >this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same >building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand. >Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more often than not. >These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's (Allah's Waiting >Room). We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The >fast mover's, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on >the enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 >Spectre gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, >especially >at night. Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all. Fun fact: The >enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we're >seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber ****. >The new strategy is simple: attrition. > >The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian >non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian >casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are >locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and >flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for >civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without >hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new >Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is common >to >influence people they are trying to influence but cant reach, such as local >govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.). > >The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured". They know that >if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. Zarqawi >openly offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American >serviceman. >This motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a **** about >the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common >criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight is to >the >death. Surrender is not an option. > >The Iraqi's are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a ****. >Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are >getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawi's use of suicide bombers, >en masse, against the civilian population was a serious tactical mistake. >Many Iraqi's were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and >the >police forces went up, along with their motivation. It also led to an >exponential increase in good intel because the Iraqi's are sick of the >insurgent attacks against civilians. The Kurds are solidly pro-American >and >fearless fighters. > >ccording to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only >believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are >stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they >almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are >despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1 >and then see **** like "Are we losing in Iraq" on TV and the print media. >For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food and >leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, there are not >enough >guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, >primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the >borders with Iran and Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand >the thought of Iraq being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US >bases there). > >Anyway guys, that's it, hope you found it interesting...

Boomyal · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

PW, et al doesn't want to hear it. It makes it tougher to get any mileage out of "Bush Lied'.

QC · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

Thank you for this. With the assumption that it is accurate, this helps my understanding of what is going on. Pretty much boils down to valuing human life. We do, they don't . Often the situation with wars and conflicts that we are involved in. Reminds me of a lyric in a Sting song, don't know the name and don't like the guy's politics, but it goes something like "if the Russians love their children too". Referring I think to the hope during the Cold War that the Russians wouldn't pull any crap if they loved their children too. Always stuck in my head.

rodbolt · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

not really/ bubba did and still stands by the lie. I saw nothing in that report about finding WMD's. if nothing else it shows some gapeing holes in bubbya's planning and lack of forsight when relying on his lapdogs for info. the very fact that not enough troops were sent to properly secure the area is the first hole in the bubba war theorem and he was told he did not have enough, those military leaders were quietly dismissed and transfered. the view on the weapons is very accurate. the M16 is the biggest pile o trash on the battle field. works good in hollywood though. same with the 9mm , works graet if all we did was target shoot at 50 yds with extra points for tight groupings, however when I am in a space on a ship or in a building and I absoluty have to knock something down at 3 ft I want my m1911

at least if its not a killing shot the target has to turn around to face me again. the M14 is fairly reliable but can have some bolt problems, the 12Ga model 500 is pig reliable and very quick and easy to field strip and clean. my cousin carried an m16 in vietnam for 4 years, or carried it when he had to. his most cherished weapons were his captured ak47 cause it went bang everytime an the trusty m1911 for the same reason. but on recon patrols they tried to use nv weapons due to shell casings and the sound of the weapon when fired. the browning HB50 cal is plain awesome. but no this actually hurts the bubba camp as it points out glaring faults in his illconcieved poor laid out planning. it does point out that even with idiots as leaders our military does what it can with what it has and does it well. the war in Iraq is not a war with Iraq. but it wont solve anything. it will drag on to become a quagmire soon as the Iraqi borders are still not secure. the reason can be laid directly with the commander in cheif. he is ultimatly responsible for security. blame syria all you wish, but the problem is and has been lack of proper planning and low troop strength allowed for a massive buildup in Iraq that was not there in 03.its akin to blaming mexico for our US border concerns, it aint a mexican problem its a US one.

PW2 · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

Boom, why do you say I don't want to hear it? I've constantly said that Bush lied, and I'm convinced more than ever that he did. I've also said, also consistenly, that we are in there now, and we should have a strategy to win, and that means enough troops so that when we take an area, we can hold it--we can seal the border areas, etc. Just like this guy says. I'm not too impressed with the relative kill ratios, etc. They used the same tactic in Viet Nam. I am a follower of the Powell Doctrine which says, basically, when you go in, go in with overwhelming force, have a clear plan and a clearer objective, and a clear exit strategy. If you don't have that, don't go in till you do. Even if we are killing 20 to 1 (or whatever the ratio is) they never seem to run low on jihadists, and once we kill 20, we can expect another American kid to go down. I respect these kids, and what they are doing. I think we owe it to them to have a strategy to win this stupid thing, now that we are in it. Sorry to disappoint you, Boom, but while this war may be a partisan political issue to you, it is more a competence and intelligence issue to me.

JB · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

Interesting comparison of the 9mm handgun and the .45ACP. John Browning designed the M1911 and the .45ACP in response to US Soldier complaints that the standard issue .38 Colt would not stop a drugged up enemy reliably. I thought about that a lot when the Beretta, a really fine pistol built in the wrong caliber, replaced the best combat sidearm ever. Have we come full circle? Perhaps the Beretta could be scaled up and chambered for something that throws 250 grains at 1000fps+?

rodbolt · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911 JB that was my concern. at the time the 9mm was just being issued, I tried to keep the 45 as I figgured if I ever needed it odds are it was not going to be for target competition. I figgued if I needed it the range would be less than 10ft or so and in the excitement I may miss a vital shot and the stopping power of the 45acp would maybe give me a second shot. most of the standard issue 45's we had were not particularly accurate, some if over 25 ft, you would do about as well by throwing the sidearm at them. our training was to aim for center of mass not aim to kill, like our weapons officer says, shoot to wing them in the chest with a 45

. but I was always nervous about some PCP head or Jihad dusted fool that would not stop. my personal opinion is the 45acp is a better self defense round than the 9mm. but the 9mm is smaller and lighter and easier for females to use.not near as much recoil and slide torque as the 45. PW2 I agree I did not like the reasons for the war, we all knew it was a lie, however we are there,poorly equiped and lightly staffed but there. while shock and awe was a catchy phrase it was a teat on a boar hog. never worked before or we would have shocked and awed the Ho chiminn trail to death. no amount of whiz bang weapons replaces bootprints in the sand. it may assist but it cannot replace. problem with bootprints in the sand is usually there is a warm blooded human wearing them. the 20 to one ratio is about meaningless, stalin bragged in 43 that he could trade the nazis 20-1 and win, he was just about correct on his ratio. and if you look at the current insurgent strenth estimates, the total body count so far and the estimated troop strength on the ground before 03 and add in the troops that are now under US control and it becomes rapidly apperaent that either our intel was way off or the insurgents are getting massive amounts of reinforcements from someplace. either way it points to pathetic planning.

KRS · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

Everyone's missing the point... Treedancer, tell your friend thank you and we pray that Jordan and his colleagues will remain safe, thanks for sharing.

theriver · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

I think PW2 is the most intelligent contributor to DC. Thanks PW2.

treedancer · Nov 12, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

Myself I found that they ranked shotguns so high interesting. In Nam they were in high demand but that was jungle but guess that urban fighting is similar. And that the 45 was ranked so high maybe the fact that its tolerance is so loose that the sand cant jam it helps. When I was in the Marine Corps I tried to qualify with the 45 but could not hit any thing with it. Good enough with everything else though.

pjc · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

No better handgun than the 1911A1 / 45ACP IMO. Just my tew cents.

Thanks for this post treedancer! Same old tired Bush lied..blablablabla...the reality is, considering that most of the Arab enemy is from other than Iraq, we are defeating them through attrition. Says so in the opening post. No better place to do this than in Iraq IMO. Would yew libs rather do this in American civilian areas, like the Twin Towers (opppps, the Towers are gone now, dern), Malls, yer children's schools? How about in PWs & therivers backyard?

QC · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

az, What was the point? I thought it was mostly just a list of stuff. Thought it was very interesting. I came away with the human life value thing.

rolmops · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

Sounds very much like what we found out in Lebanon under the same circumstances. We added one or two things to our arsenals. We took russian BPR's (roughly a Bradly)and mounted vulcans on them with the added possibility of horizental fire.The vulcans outperformed the 0.50's in a spectacular way.While "cleaning up a street" with explosive bullets,the BPR's would be rolling backward because of the heavy recoil.The streets and houses along it always became very quiet, very fast. This might be a tip for you guys over there.

rodbolt · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

nothing wrong with the M61A1, was a good weapon, I happened to be qualified on maint,teardown and repair of it

. its especially effective when using DU rounds as there is no barrel erosion. we cycled ours at 1500 RPM its capeable of just over 7000 RPM but on a land based or stationay vehicle it has a tendancy to overheat the barrels rapidly. had we not gone in under a lie and wasted precious time going in the wrong direction and had actually put enough troops with the correct armour on the ground to start with this would have actually been mission accomplished instead of a PR photo op about it on a carrier. goes back to **** poor planning and the reliance on yes men as advisors. chat with anyone that had to weld Iraqi scrap iron on a vehicle and you will see what I am talking about. a good place to chat is the Atlanta airport, lots of soldiers going back to iraq to chat with. buy a round or two and just ask questions about their gear and supply lines and you will get an earful. its actually sadning yet impressive at the same time. goes back to the saying in the navy about we the unwilling led by the unknowing trying to accomplish the impossible with nothing. its a dang good thing we have about the best fighting force on the planet, maybe one day we will train to be world cops.

KRS · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

The point is, we learned from a first-hand account (allbeit only one) the life our soldiers live over there. Our thanks is required, not arguements over policy. I do think Quietcat, that the point you took away was a good one, not that my approval is needed

but the arguements needed to be saved for another post.

QC · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

Az, I was honestly curious as I didn't get a bang "this is the point" moment from it. Your approval is a good thing . . .

pjc · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

problem is "Member rodbolt" we can not go on a mission as you state. My President Bush must take considerations into account. Yours as well as the pacifists for example. Dude, the USA has the mightiest and most techno Military in the world. We can not use it due to the necessity of having to play PC. An example, I may wish to attack with a 45, but I can only use a rubber glove for fear of what the media will twist. No offense, but Bush must play kinda soft to appease the ignorant soft bellied pacifists.

JasonJ · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

The problem with the 9mm is they are not allowed to use any ammo other than ball (9mm ball is useless except for target practice). Its a Geneva Convention thing (only ball ammo is allowed in light weapons). If our boys could use some Corbon +P hollowpoint 9mm, the enemy would drop like sacks of wet cement (Corbon +P 9mm has similar penetration/expansion to .40SW). 45 ACP works good in the ball format simply because you are throwing a schoolbus at the enemy with lots of force. Works for me

M16s can work, but the time needed to make them work can be a problem. I can guarantee the people who are having the most problems are the same ones who are over lubing the firing assemblies. I have years upon years of experience with the M249 and the M16, and they worked well in all conditions until you slathered them up with so much lube that the fine sand causes it to gum up. In this regard, the AK47 is vastly superior simply because it is a junk weapon with huge tolerances that allow tons of dirt. All I know is our men over there have a daunting task and do not need to be told they have crap equipment, and they do not need to see the crap the media insists is the truth. I do not believe every single soldier over there loves to be there, I do believe they are doing their jobs and keeping their opinions to themselves, as good soldiers do.

pjc · Nov 13, 2005

Re: Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

I am ashamed. Of myself. I do offend some of those here, and my sensibilities upon reflection. I offend those here who have served this country via the Military. I offend those here who have not served in the Military, but are good citizens. As I type this I look on and off at my five year old boy. He may join the Military. May not. May be a carpenter, may be a engineer. May be just like you and me. Just hope that my Sons world can hold some sort of piece and tolerance of all.

Most interesting first hand report from Iraq!

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