Motor Position on Transom

paw2000

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
106
Hi, Hope this is the correct forum for this. I removed my force 125 for service and on a whim measured the centerline. The motor was 1/2in off set to the starboard side. What effect would this have? The boat currently suffers from stiff steering in 1 direction and easy the other. I replaced the rack and cable over the winter and still have the stiff steering. Any suggestions?
 

crb478

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
1,036
Re: Motor Position on Transom

Being off center will make for somewhat of a tracking issue, but it might not be that noticable only being 1/2 and inch out. How stiff is your steering without the motor hooked up? You may have a cable issue.
 

Lion hunter

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
1,529
Re: Motor Position on Transom

It's hard for us to imagine what easy and stiff are. Is something noticeably binding one direction and not the other. Is this a single cable system? If so, and I have never had one, but I would think that they would be a little harder when you are pushing the cable -vs- pulling it. Is the stiffness occuring on the pull or push?
 

paw2000

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
106
Re: Motor Position on Transom

The motor pivots easily when disconnected from the cable, when connected its also easy. When turning the steering wheel there is an initial resistance but you can feel the momentum of the motor. When in gear from idle and say 1/4 throttle(not on plane) the steering is fine. Increase speed it gets progressively harder. When at speed on plane the turning in one direction is easy but getting back to center its alot of effort. Same for going the other direction tho centering is easy. Turning to port is the direction, I have adjusted the trim plate(this force motor trim is the exhaust port) and has not produced good results. I was hoping that centering the motor and I'm currently installing a jack-plate to raise the motor up. The cavitation plate was about 1in below the keel, hoping that getting it up higher might take the leverage off the motor and reduce the steering effort. I'm wondering if the boat came with a short shaft motor and a long shaft was installed. The orginal owner stated they replaced the motor, didn't ask when I bought it if it was the same size motor. There is no additional mounting holes in the transom so they replaced it with the same force brand.

Also when accelerating from a stop the bow rises very high and as speed builds the bow drops slowly. The manufacture of my jack plate said that was a classic symptom of a motor not at correct height. I had to contact them as the Force motors before Mercury bought them, the mounts were not the standard BIA dimensions and I had to get specs on re-drilling the jack plate
 

crb478

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
1,036
Re: Motor Position on Transom

Raising the motor should help you with the steering and bow rise,you may want to go an inch above the keel and then drop it back to even if needed. AV plate should ride on top of the water even with water when it is right.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Motor Position on Transom

The steering problem is torque steer. It can be helped a bit by repositioning the exhaust snout, but if you have power trim, raising the trim helps more. When the engine is tucked in too close to the transom, prop torque will make it feel like a truck with no power steering.

If you do not have power trim, position the tilt bar in the hole that puts the lower unit closest to parallel with the hull bottom.

Raising the engine vertically on the transom may also help a bit, but too far and you will experience ventilation/cavitation. It's a fine line.
 

paw2000

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
106
Re: Motor Position on Transom

The Jack plate will move the motor back 6inches and i'm raising it up to about 1 inch so the cav plate is above the keel. I had adjusted the exhaust snout to its max, is there any advantage to slotting the pivot clamp slot to gain maybe an 1/8 more movement? I saw that there is a torque plate available that fastens to the motor, but not sure if this worth trying. I see boats with hydrofoils on the cav plate, and Im confused how they work, because if your on plane and motor at correct height, they should be out of water.
 

Vert1go

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
42
Re: Motor Position on Transom

That small difference would not matter. Almost all boat engines are not centered exactly. This is because most marinas never bother to actually measure the centerline when they attach the drilling fixture to the transom - they just eyeball it.
 

paw2000

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
106
Re: Motor Position on Transom

The exhaust snout is the trim tab, older force motor had the exhuast thru this snout, not thru the hub. I'm hoping to have everything mounted this weekend and get it out during the week.
 

dragnracer1

Recruit
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
5
Re: Motor Position on Transom

ok so im new to this boat stuff and im a little confused on transom height and effect on the boat , i have a 17 foot v hull with a 88 rude spl i understand that the wot rpm should be around 5500 rpm , im running a 13.5 15p alum prop and current transom height is aprox 2.5 in above the keel and i have plastic hydafoil installed ,, ok now the boat will obtain aplane in aprox 50-75 ft max 100 ft at wot i obtain 4500 rpm at 25-27 mph , now im sure the boat can gain a bit based on low wot rpm , can transom height cause the low rpm and speed, any help at this point will be greatly appreciated
 

poor_boy67

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
17
Re: Motor Position on Transom

Hi all,
I too am currently researching this issue. I purchased a 1982 18'6" Champion that the previous owner changed the motor on. I believe it had a Merc 175 and he replaced it with a Force 150. Everthing appears to work fine but I've been told that the boat should run a little faster than it does at WOT. the boat has a hydrafoil on it and tops out around 42 mph according to my GPS. when I remove the hydrafoil I gain about 5 mph giving me a top speed of 47 mph. I've been told that my boat should run up close to 60 mph with the current setup by other boaters here at work. After researching to try to find out where I should be the only things that I can come up with are engine height on the transom and prop pitch. I have a 12 3/4 X 21P prop and my motors cavitaion plate sets even or maybe a touch below the bottom of my transom. Am I looking for speed that isn't there to be had or can there be an improvement on what I have got? It really seemed like a huge gain when I removed the hydrafoil which makes me think my motor is sitting too low in the water.
 

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sho3boater

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
168
Re: Motor Position on Transom

I put a transom in my 16' bayliner, and put the 85hp force back on with a 1/2" spacer to get the cav plate above the bottom at level trim. The issue is you need to have the prop in the water or it blows out when you trim it up and/or turn trimmed up. Now, if you run a bow lifting prop like many bass boat props are, and your boat is not a slug, it will go faster with the motor higher and trimmed more, it lifts the bow more, that type prop lifts the bow more even when surfacing some. You can go higher until it will not lift the bow enough to get your best speed. However a stock type prop will blow out far before that, so the setups are completely different.

I had a 17' open bow vee with a 2" spacer under the motor. I could not trim it much at all with a stock alum prop and it didn't go that fast, rpm was low IIRC 4800. I found a laser prop 1" less pitch that was SS so about the same pitch really, put it on and trimmed way up the boat flew hit 6K rpm and much faster. The boat was setup for that kind of prop. It ran the same speed on the speedo at 4800rpm as the alum prop did.

It depends on the boat too, this bayliner I been running I trim up not quite all the way and it makes no difference after that. The hull will not let it lift the bow more than that; it comes off the strakes and the bow falls, so it is fastest at that point. The trim on the motor does not go as high as other motors I've had, but the exhaust does get a little louder there. Also that is a stock SS MI wheel prop, not a surfacing prop and it will slip on corners so it is high as it can run. I tried a larger bow lifter prop and it would not pull it, but remember my motor was too low for that prop also. I'd like to try a jack on it but requires surgery on the steering I have not gotten to yet. You have to put the height in the range that type of prop needs, then only low enough to lift your bow enough. Also when you do that watch the water pressure you should have a gauge, you can trim up and lift the water intake right out of the water.

The idea with a jack is to give the motor more leverage as well as make height adjustable. So then you don't need as much trim to lift the bow because the motor is further from the transom, as well as the static weight of the motor being further back. Also the boat runs at an attack angle of a few degrees, so you can put the motor higher on a jack just because the water is higher back there due to attack angle.

In the end you need the motor higher and less trimmed to reduce LU drag, but enough in the water and enough lift from prop to get your bow up so you can unwet the bottom and fly (and low enough to cool the motor). That is why you run a jack, the right prop, and right height for your setup as every boat is different and even moving stuff in the boat can change it. In general take everything out of the boat, put only what you need back in and the heaviest stuff you put in the stern and low as you can.

If you get torque steer when trimmed up and high speed, it is because the trim tab (behind the prop) is out of the water. As you go higher with a semi surfacing type prop you will get more torque because the bottom half of the prop is in the water not the top, and it wants to walk sideways. To deal with that you need to put a tab on the skeg where it stays in the water. They make little 'flares' like a wedge that mount on the rear edge of the skeg to push water that way and counter the torque. Some people just put a flat plate above the prop so they still have an anode.

On top of all that your prop needs to be perfect for top speeds, even one little half a dime size dent can take 5mph off the boat.

A hydrofoil should be out of the water when you trim up at planing speeds. It is not safe for it to be in the water at high speeds. This little bayliner will actually holeshot fastest with the trim at WOT height. The bow jumps up and falls, then the prop cavitates a little and it grabs and the bow goes back up repeating the sequence, then it is on plane and gone. The other 17' boat I had I would start with level trim, soon as I hit the throttle down I hit the trim up and in a few seconds the bow dropped and it was on plane and gone. It depends on the weight of the boat and how much power you have.
 
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