Need advice

[rv my private jet]

Please excuse my naivity, however I am shopping for my first boat for our family. My question is, most of our boating will be done in lakes/rivers, however, can a 16 to 18 ft open bow be worthy of the ocean?

Also, why do I see so many rebuilt engines in used boats, are they not made as soundly as auto engines or do they just take much more abuse.

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Need advice

I wouldn't feel comfortable in an 18 footer very far offshore in the ocean, would be a great lake boat though. Marine engines spent most of their lives running at max power. There are no transmissions like a car to reduce the load, proper care extends how soon they need to be rebuilt.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Need advice

agree, lack of maintainance, not having proper fuel/ oil mix, and cooling are the #1 reasons for rebuilds. there are a lot that are 50-60 years old still running stong.

 

[Neverhome]

Re: Need advice

I see a lot of 18 footers out in the bay but close to shore and in calm water. An open bow in the ocean is an invitation to disaster as a wave can quickly fill and swamp an open bow boat, and the second one can sink it.

Neverhome

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Need advice

I went out on a SAR call today and ran my 1972 65hp Johnson at 3,800 rpm for eight hours. I did idle a couple of times to change tanks, dig a sandwich and a bottle of water out of the cooler, and "water the fish." but the motor basically worked all day without complaint. Outboards motors can last a very long time if properly cared for.

 

[Offroader]

Re: Need advice

An open bow in the ocean is an invitation to disaster as a wave can quickly fill and swamp an open bow boat, and the second one can sink it.

Neverhome

Aren't Center Consoles open bows?

 

[KCook]

Re: Need advice

A 16 is too small for the ocean. Some 18' models are Ok, but they are not all the same. Here is a link to another thread that covers much the same subject -

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=47821

Kelly Cook

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Need advice

An old man that I once knew as a kid, went out fishing in his homemade boat every single day of the year that the weather allowed him too. The flat bottomed boat was 12 feet long, was made of plywood and had about a 1954 Johnson 10hp motor on it. Knowing this man, I doubt that the plywood was marine grade. His daily destination was in the ocean, not far from the jetty that served as an exit/entrance to the saltwater pond where the boat was docked.

He did this for as long as I remember and I remember him from about the age of 5 to around twenty eight, when he died of complications from a leg burn. The funny thing is that he did something in a boat that most of us probably wouldn't but ended up losing his life over something that seems pretty innocuous - namely, taking a sauna in his also homemade sauna.

So, how did he manage to defy the odds in the boat? Simple, he exercised a great deal of caution, knew the area that he fished in intimately (including weather patterns, tidal issues, etc.), stayed close to the safety of the pond and knew when to go "outside" and when not too. Too bad he didn't use the same caution with the sauna by quitting when he got too old to use it safely.

Sorry for the indirect answer but your Q made me think of this guy, who was my grandfather's best friend and quite the character. I hope the story illustrates the point that boating safety has to do with a lot more than a specific boat.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Need advice

Aren't Center Consoles open bows?

Yes some are but they have self bailing decks.Your average bowrider is a way different design.

 

[JB]

Re: Need advice

I see a lot of 18 footers out in the bay but close to shore and in calm water. An open bow in the ocean is an invitation to disaster as a wave can quickly fill and swamp an open bow boat, and the second one can sink it.

Neverhome

Not if the 18 footer is a Boston Whaler. As a matter of fact I had exactly what you describe happen when out in my 1966 16' Boston Whaler Sakonnet (see avatar). I was shin deep in salt water with fuel tanks banging my legs. I simply opened her up a bit, dumped most of it over the transom. Then I pulled the plug and drove her dry.

I took that 16' from Haulover to Bimini twice and my 1983 Boston Whaler Outrage 18' once.

However, I would not try that trip or even go more than a mile or two offshore in any other open boat that size except maybe a Dell Quay Dory.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Need advice

Aside from my way of relating to things anecdotally, let me just try to hit this straight up. Yes, you can safely operate an open bow boat in the ocean. As JB said, it depends on the boat but I would also say it depends on you.

There are times on the ocean when it is flat calm all day long and you could go out in a crappy old flatboat. If you were to do that, it would be imperative that you stay close to protected waters in case the forecast is wrong, and it would be just as important that you understand the dynamics of the inlet back to those protected waters. In many "breachways," water turbulence can be an issue during periods of heavy tidal flow. There are obviously other issues to be considered but these offer some things to think about.

More than anything, boating safety is about decision making. Its also about hedging your bets. You may find a body of water that at times is fine for the boat you have and at times, isn't. If you understand that clearly and take precautions such as letting someone know where you will be boating and what time you will be back, in addition to having PFDs and other safety equipment, you should be fine.

 

[Neverhome]

Re: Need advice

JB,

I don't disagree that an experienced person with an open 16-18 foot boat could operate it relatively safely in the open ocean, close to shore, but RV is new to boating if I understand his post correctly and in my experience, there are better choices for him than an open boat of that length for the ocean. True, Whalers may be able to handle ankle deep water due to their floatation and design, but not everyone has a Whaler. And I think it safe to say that not everyone new to boating would have the presence of mind to pull the drain plug and throttle up to drain the water.

I spend all of my free time on salt water and have seen the good, the bad, and the just plain foolish out there. That's why I recommend a closed bow for RV, at least until he gets some experience under his life jacket.

Neverhome

 

[Lakester]

Re: Need advice

jay m sed:

"I went out on a SAR call today and ran my 1972 65hp Johnson at 3,800 rpm for eight hours. "

my dream! i am working hard on that level or reliability. for me, nothing short of jm's will due!

way to go jm!!

regards,

lakester

 

[Nandy]

Re: Need advice

can a 16 to 18 ft open bow be worthy of the ocean?

It will depend on the hull design. Most "open bow" boats with lots of freeboard are capable. You also have to take in consideration the expertise of the skipper.

This is what a lot of the fisherman in my island of Puerto Rico use for offshore fishing. I remember seeing some of these guys way out there when we were fishing for marlin and mahi-mahi.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Need advice

I agree that caution is appropriate at all times, especially when new to something. At the same time, people get caught up in the idea that you need to have a 24 foot, $80,000 boat to be safe. You don't. What you need to do is to realize your own limitations, the boat's limitations and the inherent dangers in the activity. Then you need to plan and act accordingly.

I have also seen my fair share of sad boating stories, both in big boats and small ones. In nearly all of these cases, bad decision making caused the problem, not the boat. Tomorrow, I am launching for a second day of SAR in regard to four boaters who tried to cross Lake Ponchartrain in a 14 foot flatboat, in high winds last Saturday. The lake gets very rough relatively easily because it is shallow. At the same time, you could run a 14' flat around it without a problem on a calm day. So, this bit of bad decision making is known to have cost one life, and most certainly has taken another because the man that I will be looking for, was observed by two survivors going under a week ago.

And, if y'all don't mind a bit of thread hijacking for a good cause - the two survivors were wearing PFDs, survived 57 degree water until they made it to shore and then survived in a remote area for two days. Temperatures were in 40- 50 degree range and they covered themselves in leaves, and whatever else they could find, to keep warm. The body that was found was nearby and there was a PFD in his hands but not on him. It is not known if he had it on at some point, or merely used it as hand held flotation. Contrary to local newpaper reporting, the person who drowned at the boat was not wearing a PFD.

Safe boating is more about what goes on in between the ears than it is in how many feet from bow to stern.

 

[JB]

Re: Need advice

I don't disagree with neverhome. Skill and presence of mind of the helmsman are essential when at sea in any boat. Neither size of the boat nor a covered bow can compensate for errors at the helm.

My point is that a boat like a Whaler or a Dell Quay that is designed from scratch to be a safe offshore fisherman is far safer than a boat designed to be pretty and comfortable running in sheltered water.