Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

[BloodStone]

Hello;
I was told (by Johny 25) that the tech heads here know more than at Tinboats.net.
Anyway, I posed the following question there & inadvertently started a mini-war between 2 guys. :fencing:. :facepalm:
Question about Evinrude Carb compatibility? - TinBoats.net
Question; I was needing to know if there is ANY fundamental difference between a 1982 E25ECNE Evinrude CARBURETOR vs a 1982 E35ECND Evinrude CARBURETOR? I've looked at exploded diagrams of both carbs & can't see very much difference between the two (besides jet & throat size). Are they interchangeable? I own the 25hp.
Question #2; If I can indeed put the 1982 E35ECND 35hp Carb on my 1982 E25ECNE 25hp motor what other stuff do I need specifically to do to make it work? If all is required is a new plate & fine tuning the 35hp carb, then great! If I gotta change a bunch of other stuff too (like LU, prop & exhaust ports etc..), then I'll forget about it.
Thanks in advance.

 

[James R]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Bolt it on and try it. The intake manifold effectively limits the throat size so apart from jet changes it should work.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

I have read through your post over at Tinboats, great! You state you are not looking to increase performance there yet in reality you are. I am sure the carb mod can be made to work but is it worth the effort? There you asked the difference between exhausts and as stated there is a large difference between how much spent gas, exhaust, each can handle. There is more to Tuning than just changing a carb to increase hp and OMC had already figured that out.

This same question comes up with the 9.9 and 15hp and there is a very good read about it here.
Maintaining Johnson/Evinrude 9.9 part 1

Then as I have read over the years there really isn't a lot of performance tuning that can easily be done to any of these engines.

My take on this subject. If you are experiencing carb/fuel problems and need to replace a carb then do so with the correct part. If you are looking for a performence increase then change engines. I myself wouldn't go through the headaches of trying to modify an outboard for general usage. If you were building a racing engine then it would be a different story.

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

I have read through your post over at Tinboats, great! You state you are not looking to increase performance there yet in reality you are.

No, I was/am PRIMARILY looking to increase performance (aka properly running engine at all speeds) not so much the horsepower although that too would be a welcome bonus. This whole thing started because I was simply looking for another carb/choke solenoid to put on it & I found one new on Ebay at a decent price. I looked both carbs over (via exploded diagrams) & couldn't see any real difference between them. So naturally, I wanted to know if I could use the 1982 E35ECND carb on my 1982 25hp OB. Thus my OP.

I am sure the carb mod can be made to work but is it worth the effort? There you asked the difference between exhausts and as stated there is a large difference between how much spent gas, exhaust, each can handle. There is more to Tuning than just changing a carb to increase hp and OMC had already figured that out.

Yes I kind of knew that (I.e. more than just changing carbs not so much the exhaust issue), that's why I was prepared to change the intake (I was looking at one off a 84 35hp). But as I also stated, I'll go as far as changing the plate & fine tuning the new carb but other than that, I'm not getting into a major mechanical hassle. I don't have an ego to feed, therefore I have no difficulty acknowledging that I am more a mechanical tinkerer than a supremely knowledgeable mechanic.

This same question comes up with the 9.9 and 15hp and there is a very good read about it here.
Maintaining Johnson/Evinrude 9.9 part 1

Then as I have read over the years there really isn't a lot of performance tuning that can easily be done to any of these engines.

My take on this subject. If you are experiencing carb/fuel problems and need to replace a carb then do so with the correct part. If you are looking for a performence increase then change engines. I myself wouldn't go through the headaches of trying to modify an outboard for general usage. If you were building a racing engine then it would be a different story.

Finally some straight to the point, practical advice. Not this yeah it'll work, no it won't spaghetti mess of "answers". Also finding the particular carb I need with matching choke solenoid at a fair to decent price isn't going to be a picnic I feel.
And, unless I run into one hell of a deal, changing OB motors isn't practical due to limited financial resources.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Sounds as though you still haven't decided what to do.

Here is another alternative which I myself have done on many occasions. Watch graigslist and stay off ebay. I have found that I can get better deals that way and one way of doing it is to look for whole nonrunning parts motors. Michigan can't be that much different than Wisconsin in the number of 25hp johnyrudes in circulation. I come across those engine constantly that either have blown powerheads or blown lower units. All you need to do is look through the parts breakdown and numbers on shopevinrude.com and you will come up with a range of years that all used the same part number. Then it's just a matter of searching and waiting till you find one. Ebay prices are way over inflated.

I don't recall but what again is exactly the problem you are having with this engine? As much detail as possible.

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Sounds as though you still haven't decided what to do.

NOPE! Waiting for my head to stop spinning from all the conflicting advise given especially over at tinboats.:disillusionment:

Here is another alternative which I myself have done on many occasions. Watch graigslist and stay off ebay. I have found that I can get better deals that way and one way of doing it is to look for whole nonrunning parts motors. Michigan can't be that much different than Wisconsin in the number of 25hp johnyrudes in circulation. I come across those engine constantly that either have blown powerheads or blown lower units. All you need to do is look through the parts breakdown and numbers on shopevinrude.com and you will come up with a range of years that all used the same part number. Then it's just a matter of searching and waiting till you find one. Ebay prices are way over inflated.

On that, we agree. I use CL whenever I can. But this carb on ebay was brand new (with matching choke solenoid) & 1/2 the price that most marine parts places get (IF they even have one). I just don't want to get stuck spending the time & $$ trying to resurrect a junk carb off a non-running johnnyrude. Anyway, regarding that link you provided to me, I emailed the guy with my initial inquiry. I figured if anyone would know, it'd probably be him.

I don't recall but what again is exactly the problem you are having with this engine? As much detail as possible.

Engine having to be choked at wot to achieve proper speed. I pull up on the electric choke toggle switch located at the side console shifter & the motor straightens out. I've had a new fuel pump put on, the carb cleaned & even a new power box put on. I took it to a guy & he stopped the sputtering at idle & low speeds (mostly) but, he claims the choke solenoid is the culprit (allegedly faulty-opening & closing whenever) & that maybe one of the butterflies in the carb is slightly bent. So I decided rather than keep on the maddening merry go-round of repairs, I'll just replace the damn carb & CS with new if possible & eliminate all this BS once & for all.

 

[racerone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

The internet can be a very good scource for bad information.-------There are many VOLUNTEERS that will help those who politely ask for help.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Who did the carb work? I find it hard to believe there is a bent shaft or that the choke solenoid is causing this.

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Who did the carb work? I find it hard to believe there is a bent shaft or that the choke solenoid is causing this.

A guy who use to work at a place called Wilson Marine, located in Michigan. He now does freelance work.
The CS he says is not operating correctly- just opening & closing whenever and he thinks part of the butterfly may be bent.
Before that, some know-nothing a-hole worked on it who soaked me good (claimed it needed a power pack-God help him if I ever find anybody who belongs to Angies List-I'll roast his crooked A**
but good! ). Both guys claimed the carb has been rebuilt. :dispirited:
But one thing is for sure, it's the carb.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Agree 100% that the problem is in the carb. Also one that old has probably been rebuilt many times. Question now becomes how to proceed.

I myself would not buy and use that 35hp carb, even if it is new and the price is right. I would still look for the correct one if I was going to replace it.

Those carbs are very simple and basic. There are only 4 moving parts, Float, Float needle, throttle butterfly and choke butterfly. There should also be a manual choke lever on that engine which would disable the auto choke.

W/O trying to be offensive but I do not know you nor do I know the others that have worked on this engine. I don't believe the others as to what they told you. How far did they go to clean this carb? Did they only spray it out and replace gaskets or did they do it right and remove all the plugs? In a normal rebuild there would be no reason to remove any of the butterflies and it would take a lot to bend a shaft. Even if it were bent it would be inoperable before you would notice.

So if it is bent and you want to replace it that is fine, find another same part number for fewest headaches. If that is the case then I myself would still take it apart and check it out myself. Go ahead and pull all the little silver plugs, pull the butterfly shaft and just roll it like a cue stick and see if it's bent.

Here is the problem as I see it. There is nothing wrong with that carb other than there is a blockage in one of the fuel circuits that was never cleared. All it takes is a piece of old deteriorated hose in there and it will cause major headaches and yes it can become a pain to clear it. It may look clear and clean but it's not. I know I've been there with an 18hp. Had that one apart 4 times before I got all the junk out. After that it ran like a top. Then again you can use the manual choke to see if that clears up some of the problem which I also doubt.

I hate buying parts that are not needed.

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Ok I hear what you're saying Bonz_d (& no I'm not questioning your mechanical mojo lol) but then on the other hand, I find stuff like the following on boats . net (& ebay)the intake manifolds (same part #), the Inner Exhaust Tube Housing between the 25 & 35 are apparently the same too (Same part #), etc..Now how can the carb housing be the exact same size, the intake manifold the same & apparently the Inner Exhaust Tube Housing between the 25hp & the 35hp too? Seems like there isn't a whole helluva lot of difference between these 2 motors. The only difficulty maybe getting the right prop onto the 25hp (currently have a new 9 1/4 x 11 on it & the 35hp is a 10 1/2 x11). So with that said, Do you have any links that show an exploded diagrams of these two OB motors (the 1982 25ECNE & the 1982 35ECND)? Maybe that'll help clear all this up for me. Also, IF I do get that carb plus change out the intake, you're telling me, it's a fool's errand & that it unquestionably will NOT work, correct?

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Not quite. I haven't researched these parts so I cannot say for certain that the numbers are the same or what the difference is I'm just going by the fact the I know the correct part will work w/o any bs. For all I know they very well could be the same part which would great but again I doubt it. There are just too many differences between the 25 and 35hp.

The 50hp 2 cylinder engines used 3 different carbs for the same size engine and in one model group even the top and bottom carb are not the same.

If you need a research site with parts breakdowns I use this site. http://shop2.evinrude.com/

Compare for yourself and if you feel comfortable afterwards then go for it. I'll give a quick look too.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Quick look, 25hp carb part numbers, there are 2 one for a short shaft 15" engine and one for a long shaft 20" engine.

15", 0393017
20", 0393020

There are also 2 different float bowls listed depending on model number.

35hp carb number,
0393057

Intake manifold uses same part for both engines.

So the carb throttle body may be the same with the difference being in the throttle linkage but no I can't answer yes or no that they are. But I bet there is a difference somewhere within those 2 carbs.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Lots of info in the thread at the link below. Good luck!

http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/converting-20-hp-johnson-35-hp-274566.html

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Lots of info in the thread at the link below. Good luck!
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/converting-20-hp-johnson-35-hp-274566.html

:facepalm: GOOD GRIEF!
This is more maddening than getting 10 guys in a room & trying to get a unanimous consensus on who makes the best cars.
I get.. yeah it'll work, go for it! Then I get the no, it's a fool's errand such & such won't match up, LU won't take it etc..! For those of you who HAVE DONE THIS CONVERSION YOURSELVES on a 1982 25hp-35hp Evinrude please let me know how it worked out. And WHAT SPECIFICALLY do I need to do/change on my 1982 E25CNE to make it work (if it's possible). Thanks!
Btw, I tried to PM SandHammeran(?) since he apparently (according to the link WillyClay provided here) has a wealth of knowledge in this area but he's been banned. Without breaking iboats rules, anyone here know how I can contact him? Just PM me the info if need be. Thanks

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

I feel your pain because I have a 1985 Johnson 25HP and cannot afford to throw money at experiments either. I was aware of that old thread and just wanted you to see what others had to say about the carb swap question. You might try a PM to member Chinewalker who is still active on the forum and seems to me to have his arms around all the issues. FYI, the symptom you described above (will only run at WOT with choke/primer) is the exact test I was told to perform by a local Mercury outboard dealer's head technician as a means of identifying a clogged high-speed jet. That made me a believer out of me and I successfully cleaned the HS jets without removing any of the three carbs or jets by using spray carb cleaner and weedwacker line. That was a 2004 Mercury 50HP. Good luck with yours!

EDIT: Some more info from the racers at the link below.

http://www.dillon-racing.com/gt-pro/index.htm#rules

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

It is possible to boost the power on the 25 to 35 specs with a slight boost in timing (see manual for spec), 35hp carb and 35hp intake opening (depending on year, some 25s already had that). Care should be taken with the lower unit, though, as the split case 25 units are the weak point when you bump the power. That, and finding a prop to keep the revs under 6000. If you baby it a bit (shift nice and quick at lowest idle), keep clean oil in the unit, and avoid transom stands (akin to a burnout in a car) you can probably keep the unit from coming unglued.

That said, I agree that the primary issue here is a carb that needs a proper, thorough cleaning. Have hoses been replaced? Original hoses may have deteriorated internally and keep loading the carb with gunk after cleaning. Also, check the butterfly shaft for slop. You can get an air leak around the shaft bushing area that can cause issues.

 

[racerone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Good research is all that needs to be done.----Look up the lower unit parts on a 1994 28 HP ( prop rated I believe ) and see how the parts compare to the 82 model 25 HP that is not prop rated.--Listening to your neighbor does not always work when it comes to these fine motors.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Good research is all that needs to be done.----Look up the lower unit parts on a 1994 28 HP ( prop rated I believe ) and see how the parts compare to the 82 model 25 HP that is not prop rated.--Listening to your neighbor does not always work when it comes to these fine motors.

Please explain how that relates. The 25/28hp split case is still completely different from the 35hp with thru hub exhaust. Even the 30hp uses the larger thru hub but still all this has little to do with the question about using a 35hp carb on a 25hp engine w/o swapping out a lot of parts.

 

[racerone]

Re: Need Help with 1982 25hp Evinrude Carb..

Very simple , the man states that he was told that the 25 HP split unit is not capable of standing up to the extra power.----Read the rambling posts please.