Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

[gking]

I have an omc 3.0 inboard engine on a four winns 190 boat.

My problem is that the drain plug was left in while in storage last year. Water filled up in the back end of the boat.

It submerged the starter and the solenoid. The solenoid sits on top of the starter.

I cleaned the boat up in fall and checked to see if it would start and it did.

I serviced it today, went boating for about 4 minutes.

Boat engine stopped running like it seized or something.

I managed to get it to slowly turn over but it was jerking around a bit and then cut out. It felt like something was seizing the engine.

My question is this..... Is it possible for starter and solenoid to go bad and to kill the engine in a fashion like it seized. When I tried to restart it was sparking/arcing where the solenoid is grounded to the starter.

The boat does want to run but it struggles to start and then remain running. It is like something is seizing it down to keep it from running.

I have new battery just bought today. I was having trouble starting in the driveway today and I thought battery was a problem and I put new terminal connections on the battery wires to connect to battery.

I read on other forums where need to replace right away if starter and solenoid were submerged. But My concern of understanding is this......

Can a starter suddenly cut and engine out while it is running or combination of both starter and solenoid doing this.

When it did restart it seemed like it was going to go forward fine and then jerked around a bit like it was an on off switch and died.

Starter strains to turn it over and if it does run it feels like it is seizing.

What do you think folks? Any advice here?

 

[Don S]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Duh, lets dip an electric motor into water, let it set for a while so it will rust and corrode, then wonder why it won't work!

Replace the starter, and remove the drain plug when you store the boat. Expect all wire ends that were under water to go bad also. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

And he's being polite..8)

I have an omc 3.0 inboard engine on a four winns 190 boat.

My problem is that the drain plug was left in while in storage last year. Water filled up in the back end of the boat.

It submerged the starter and the solenoid. The solenoid sits on top of the starter.

I cleaned the boat up in fall and checked to see if it would start and it did.

I serviced it today, went boating for about 4 minutes.

Boat engine stopped running like it seized or something.

I managed to get it to slowly turn over but it was jerking around a bit and then cut out. It felt like something was seizing the engine.

My question is this..... Is it possible for starter and solenoid to go bad and to kill the engine in a fashion like it seized. When I tried to restart it was sparking/arcing where the solenoid is grounded to the starter.

The boat does want to run but it struggles to start and then remain running. It is like something is seizing it down to keep it from running.

I have new battery just bought today. I was having trouble starting in the driveway today and I thought battery was a problem and I put new terminal connections on the battery wires to connect to battery.

I read on other forums where need to replace right away if starter and solenoid were submerged. But My concern of understanding is this......

Can a starter suddenly cut and engine out while it is running or combination of both starter and solenoid doing this.

When it did restart it seemed like it was going to go forward fine and then jerked around a bit like it was an on off switch and died.

Starter strains to turn it over and if it does run it feels like it is seizing.

What do you think folks? Any advice here?

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Duh, lets dip an electric motor into water, let it set for a while so it will rust and corrode, then wonder why it won't work!

Replace the starter, and remove the drain plug when you store the boat. Expect all wire ends that were under water to go bad also. It's just a matter of time.

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Duh, lets dip an electric motor into water, let it set for a while so it will rust and corrode, then wonder why it won't work!

Replace the starter, and remove the drain plug when you store the boat. Expect all wire ends that were under water to go bad also. It's just a matter of time.

Thats great response and I wasnt sure if that starter motor would seize the engine up in the boat while it was running. I ran for 4 minutes or so and the boat just died.

I will replace starter and solenoid but will starter seize a boat engine that is already running?

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

but will starter seize a boat engine that is already running?

No it won't seize a running motor.

Pull the plugs and see if they're wet, turn the motor over (even if you have to do it with a wrench) and see if any water comes out of any of the plug holes.

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

but will starter seize a boat engine that is already running?

No it won't seize a running motor.

Pull the plugs and see if they're wet, turn the motor over (even if you have to do it with a wrench) and see if any water comes out of any of the plug holes.

The solenoid could have been wet too? Is it possible both starter and solenoid in concert bad causing these symptoms?

and if water was in engine where do I go from there?

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

If the solenoid shorted out to ground its possible it drew power from circuits that required voltage to run, that would shut the engine down. Thats if the starter failed before the engine died.

The reason I said to pull the plug and check for water is because of your overheating problem you had. If there is water in the engine you want to get out as soon as possible. Although the starter was submerged there is a slim possibility it would still work, that said, the possibility is there that you caused damage to the starter by trying to crank a hydrolocked engine.

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

If the solenoid shorted out to ground its possible it drew power from circuits that required voltage to run, that would shut the engine down. Thats if the starter failed before the engine died.

The reason I said to pull the plug and check for water is because of your overheating problem you had. If there is water in the engine you want to get out as soon as possible. Although the starter was submerged there is a slim possibility it would still work, that said, the possibility is there that you caused damage to the starter by trying to crank a hydrolocked engine.

I fixed the overheating problem. I have had the boat out many times since then. The boat did have starting problems this morning. I bought a new battery. It was sparking after I had trouble between the solenoid and starter where they are grounded together. I tightened it but boat has trouble turning over. I think i may replace both and cross my fingers. The water was no higher than starter/solenoid as they sit on the side almost at bottom of engine. They are the only things that could have been wet electronically.

I am praying that this will fix easily.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

I

I serviced it today, went boating for about 4 minutes.

Boat engine stopped running like it seized or something.

I managed to get it to slowly turn over but it was jerking around a bit and then cut out. It felt like something was seizing the engine.

I am assuming that this is an '86 or later Cobra stern drive.

Did you change the gear oil last fall or this season?

Pull the dip stick on the top of the outdrive and check to see that the oil is at the proper level. If not, chances are the fill-up was done incorrectly or one of the seals failed and allowed the oil to exit, leaving you with a damaged upper drive unit.

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Stern Drive has is full and clear. Engine oil is clean as a pin. changed both out.

I took off starter/solenoid unit and had it tested at autozone. Complete failure.

Wouldn't event turn over with no load. Sales clerk said something jamed up like armature etc.

So, I bought a new starter/solenoid. Fly wheel looks great. So I am hoping that when it was submerged that starter coroded and barley would start and once it was running during that 4 minute boat ride the solenoid went out as well.

No water in engine. No water in oil etc. or stern.

What do you guys think?

 

[tystick]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Sounds like you solved the main problem but I do not think it had anything to do with killing an engine that was already running. At least I have never heard of a bad starter doing that.

 

[Don S]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Here's a novel idea, why don't you put on the new starter, with all clean tight connections and see what happens.
Since the old starter was all corroded and stuck and who knows what else, it may also have been still engaged into the flywheel and that slowed the engine.
But until you check it out, you will never know.
It just dosn't matter what anybody "Thinks" will happen, it's what actully does happen that counts.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

I took off starter/solenoid unit and had it tested at autozone. Complete failure.

So, I bought a new starter/solenoid.

What do you guys think?

I think if you bought the starter/solenoid from Autozone, you should take it back and get a marine starter assembly that has been approved for marine us (not avaliable at AZ). Your not working on a car/truck. Marine starters are built with seam sealers and a spark shield to contain any sparks the starter produces. Automotive starters, alternators, and all other electrical parts are a hazard to you, your passangers, and any one in the nearby area. There is a lot of shrapnal from a boat when it goes KAABOOOOOOM because the sparks ignited fuel fumes in your bildge.

Quote from Don S
"Here's a novel idea, why don't you put on the new starter, with all clean tight connections and see what happens."

Surely you don't mean the starter from Auto Zone? ? ? :^

 

[Don S]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Surely you don't mean the starter from Auto Zone? ? ?

Never in my life have I been to HIS AutoZone so have no idea if they sell marine starters or not. NAPA sells marine parts, and that is also an Auto Parts store.

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Howdy folks again,

I bought a new starter from a local marine shop in the area. I took it to autozone for them to test it. I know not to put on a regular car starter because of that but, I thank you for bringing it up. That mistake has cost some people their boat and their lives.

I put the starter in tonight. I am going to test it tommorow.
Too late tonight to pull it out and go for it.

I pulled the alternator off and had it tested. It is A Ok! They took it apart to check it out to make sure. cleaned up and returned.

My question is now, I need to replace the drive belt. It is an
OMC 910343 DF 43-4959. Can this be matched up with an auto drive belt. I would hope they are the same but how do you match them up. These guys in the auto stores just want to look up numbers and be done. It would be great to be able to tell them exact size etc.

I have 3.0 OMC Cobra 4 cyl. 1986 -89 I believe.

Any advice here?

 

[speedholes]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

I would remove the belt and go to a NAPA. They can measure it and come up with somethign damn close. The alt. belt adjustment has quite a bit of play, so you can have a belt of a wrong size and it will still work. If it is close, it will work.

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

Ok,

Attempted to start the boat. Sounded like something rubbing underneath boat. Cycle rub... Cycle rub. and then engine freeze. Tried to start again had trouble moving. I think I have a stern problem of some kind.

When I try to start the engine, the engine turns all the way to the right and the steering weel turns with it as I am starting. I do not have power steering.

Gimble bearing out in it? How much would this be to fix if so?

 

[newport dave]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

If the steering wheel jerks when you try to start it, you have a broken gear in the outdrive.

Dave

 

[gking]

Re: Need problem diagnosis and trouble shooting help!

how much do you think that will be to fix? It is going to the shop next week.