New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

[AKBASSKING]

Has this been discussed?


I found this subject on another forum:

http://www.icefishingmichigan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365489

 

[4x4xEric]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

wow I wonder when that will work its way to Australia.
sounds like your EPA have swallowed a BUNK pill.
I have never heard of a portable fuel tank actual allowing fuel to permeate thru it.
Is this realy a posibility?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

Not bunk! No plastic is 100% impermeable and some are more so than others. Current fuel tanks do indeed allow a small bit of "vapor" to pass through. Not enough that you will see a loss in the tank or weepage on the outside, but enough to notice. Don't believe it? Fill a six gallon tank with gas, cap it, and leave it in a closed garage for about a week. Then go and smell the garage. Leave it in your trunk for a day and you won't be able to get into the car without opening the windows.

Multiply that by the millions of small tanks in use and you have a significant amount of hydrocarbons being released into the air.

For just that reason, it took many years for certain plastic compounds to be approved by the ATF Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) here in the US to approve plastic bottles for booze.

 

[dingbat]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

http://www.epa.gov/nonroad/marinesi-equipld/420r08014.pdf

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

this is why I shop at yard sales and run old boats!

"If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."

 

['78 Crusader]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

Just another load of crap so the Gov't can take more of our hard earned money out of our pockets.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

Just another load of crap so the Gov't can take more of our hard earned money out of our pockets.

umm, the government doesn't sell fuel tanks! Its the other way around, enforcing regulations like this cost the government money.

Its pure and simple physics, like Frank mentioned above, seal a plastic container and lock it in a garage for a week. It absolutely gives off A LOT of vapor. Multiple that times a couple million, and there are my tons of unburnt hydrocarbon going straight into the atmosphere.

Like any requirement and new technology, the early adopters who buy tanks this year are going to have to spend a little more. Within a year or two the cost will come back down as manufacturers figure out better ways of meeting the requirement. And unlike other environmental mandates, the consumer actually DOES get something out of this one. The new tanks are twice as thick, twice as durable... A punctured tank is the last thing you want on a boat.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

I just wish you could still buy a normal jerry can with a flexible spout instead of these horrid things we have now. Takes like an hour to pour 6 gallons in my boat from one of these monstrosities.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

just did the math... using a standard 6 gallon gas can, the NEW epa regulation allows a max of .2% of your fuel to disappear per day. In other words, in 45 days your 6 gallons of gas is now 5.5 gallons. Half a gallon lost to permeation.

Makes me curious how much actually seeps out now, because losing .2% isn't exactly a small amount.

 

[joed]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

just did the math... using a standard 6 gallon gas can, the NEW epa regulation allows a max of .2% of your fuel to disappear per day. In other words, in 45 days your 6 gallons of gas is now 5.5 gallons. Half a gallon lost to permeation.

Makes me curious how much actually seeps out now, because losing .2% isn't exactly a small amount.

I've got some 6 gallon cans sitting my garage for 6 months. By those calcs they should 4 gallons in them. They are still full and the end of the spout is not even capped.

 

[Bondo]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

I've got some 6 gallon cans sitting my garage for 6 months. By those calcs they should 4 gallons in them. They are still full and the end of the spout is not even capped.

Ayuh,... Agreed....

just more regulations for a preceived problem, that Ain't....

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

just did the math... using a standard 6 gallon gas can, the NEW epa regulation allows a max of .2% of your fuel disappear per day. In other words, in 45 days your 6 gallons of gas is now 5.5 gallons. Half a gallon lost to permeation.

Makes me curious how much actually seeps out now, because losing .2% isn't exactly a small amount.

This is incorrect. I looked up the regulation, it's 0.08 grams per gallon per day. In other words for a 6 gallon tank the allowed permeation is 6 * 0.08 = 0.48 GRAMS per day.

ALSO, this regulation has been on the books since 2008, so it's not like it should have been any surprise to the manufacturers, they've had a few years to get ready.

 

['78 Crusader]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

umm, the government doesn't sell fuel tanks! Its the other way around, enforcing regulations like this cost the government money.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

The point I made was that if the EPA (Government) didn't mandate it, the tank manufacturers wouldn't have to incorporate the changes and pass off the additional expense to the consumer. A simple cure for the Government to save enforcement $$ is to not pass these ridiculous regulations that require enforcement.

 

[QC]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

Careful guys. Please keep this informational . . . any political differences will get this closed pronto

 

['78 Crusader]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

Careful guys. Please keep this informational . . . any political differences will get this closed pronto

There's was no mention of politics whatsoever in this thread......nor was there any intention of bring up politics. EPA regulations on the gas tanks is and what was intended to be discussed.

 

[QC]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

It was just a pre-warning. Differing on whether or not our Government spends, saves or wastes money is very likely to lead this political. Trust me, been here for a while, we can find a way to take floating key fobs political . . .

 

[H20Rat]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

This is incorrect. I looked up the regulation, it's 0.08 grams per gallon per day. In other words for a 6 gallon tank the allowed permeation is 6 * 0.08 = 0.48 GRAMS per day.

check again... the allowed limit is 1.5 grams per square meter of surface area of the tank. Your average 6 gallon tank has roughly 1 square meter of surface area.

But with that said, i was off somewhere on my initial calculation. I had guessed at the size of a tank instead of looking one up...

There are 2724 grams of mass in 6 gallons of gas, so 1.5 grams per day is .05%.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

check again... the allowed limit is 1.5 grams per square meter of surface area of the tank. Your average 6 gallon tank has roughly 1 square meter of surface area.

But with that said, i was off somewhere on my initial calculation. I had guessed at the size of a tank instead of looking one up...

There are 2724 grams of mass in 6 gallons of gas, so 1.5 grams per day is .05%.

Gasoline weighs 6 pounds per gallon.

a 6 gallon tank will be 36 pounds of gasoline. 36 # * 454 gm / # = 16344 grams of gasoline in a 6 gallon tank.
0.48 grams / 16344 grams * 100 = 0.0029%


Here's a link to EPA's FAQ about permeation standards, about halfway down page 2 it shows the 0.08 grams / gallon / day for fuel tanks.

http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/...ackDesc=Results page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=2

 

[robert graham]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

Looks like the tank manufacturers would be all over this, add some thickness/weight to the polypropylene tanks(maybe a few pounds), then double the price$$$ Tank producers win!

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: New EPA regulations on marine fuel tanks means higher costs

Looks like the tank manufacturers would be all over this, add some thickness/weight to the polypropylene tanks(maybe a few pounds), then double the price$$$ Tank producers win!

In fact the other day I saw an "EPA compliant" primer bulb listed at a pretty steep price. It was the EXACT SAME primer bulb I bought last year for half of what that particular retailer was asking for it, so I think to some extent a few people are trying to take advantage of the situation.