New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

[davidh86]

Hey everyone, last season I discovered i had a had gimbal ring, it had a lot of steering play, so I've decided to attempt the plug method and install a new one. my question is should i use a square/spline swivel shaft or square/square swivel shaft? I'm worried the upper bushing and grease seal on my pre alpa isnt compatible with the square/square style swivel shaft i already purchased. Oh and the boats in storage so i cant just take a caliper to it lol. thanks ahead of time.

 

[achris]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

Is your 'pre-alpha' and MC-1, an R or an MR? (serial number would be the best)

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

Here is the parts breakdown for the Alpha: http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectDocs.asp?doc_nbr=99964 They list different part numbers for the sq/sq, but the important thing is the diameter of the upper bearing surface of the shaft. You may have to replace the bushing and seal. If your steering is loose, here is one thing you may want to try before you tear everything apart: Try retorquing the two gimbal ring clamping screws to 55 ft/lb. Sometimes that will take all of the play out of the steering (if the play is in the gimbal ring, not the steering arm, it fixed mine). It is a maintenance procedure that shoud be done every spring anyway. Good luck.

 

[davidh86]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

Thanks for the quick reply guys. I think its an mr drive, but im not sure so i guess ill be making a trip to my boat in storage. I wish i had bolts to tighten up, my gimbal ring is a spline to spline configuration, the bushing and oil seal issue is all im worried about, since from what i understand the alpha one bushing/seal diameter is different than some or all of the drives before it. From the random bits of information ive put together the square/square swivel shaft might not be compatible with the bushing size that the spline/spline shafts uses (which is the style shaft my boat currently has), so im assuming that a square/spline shaft would work. oh and im wondering all this cause ive been part collecting lol, i picked up a never used alpha gen one gimbal ring that came with a square/square swivel shaft and steering lever that would like to use if possible. Oh and thanks for the diagrams.

 

[davidh86]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

OK i checked out the boat it looks like an r style drive, it had grease fittings ever where including for the upper swivel pin and lower swivel pin. I guess im just going to goto the place i got the ring from and start comparing the pin dimensions. Oh and does anyone know if the lower pin held in by a cotter pin is a different diameter for alpha gen ones, cause the ring i have uses the fiber bushing instead of the older type with the grease fittings. kinda thinking i should just disassemble the drive and go from there, since there are too many unknows at this point lol.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

If the lower swivel pin has a grease fitting then I believe the ring will have a roller bearing rather than a bushing, and I believe it will have a steel pin, and the bushing takes an aluminum pin and is not interchangeable as far as i know. It is all quite confusing LOL. This may help sort it out: This is MerCruiser Gimbal Ring Kit

 

[achris]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

If you have a spline/spline swivel shaft, you can't use a square/square to replace it. As you correctly surmised, the seals are different. Without checking the actual size of the seal I don't know if the new seal will fit in the old housing. The housings are different between the square/square and the square/spline shafts.

 

[davidh86]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

If you have a spline/spline swivel shaft, you can't use a square/square to replace it. As you correctly surmised, the seals are different. Without checking the actual size of the seal I don't know if the new seal will fit in the old housing. The housings are different between the square/square and the square/spline shafts.

That sounds about rite to me, i guess ill swap out the all square swivel for the square/spline type. Thanks for ur help

 

[davidh86]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

If the lower swivel pin has a grease fitting then I believe the ring will have a roller bearing rather than a bushing, and I believe it will have a steel pin, and the bushing takes an aluminum pin and is not interchangeable as far as i know. It is all quite confusing LOL. This may help sort it out: This is MerCruiser Gimbal Ring Kit

Do you know off hand if the pins are the same size or do they have different dimensions?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

The steel lower swivel pins for the sp/sp and the sq/sq rings have the same part # 17-45212

 

[davidh86]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

well i got all the required parts and plan on doing the swap out in about a week but one detail is confusing me. The Parts site says to order two lower grease seal when the diagram only shows one, im assuming one goes under the bearing and one goes on top of it to encapsulate the grease??? I completely understand it going on the bottom (with the hollow portion towards the Bering), but im worried if i install the top one with the hollow portion towards the Bering it will stop the flow of fresh grease since the two seals that section of the shaft off.

https://www.mercruiserparts.com/Sho...BAL+HOUSING+SQUARE/SPLINED+UPPER+SWIVEL+SHAFT (part #4)

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

It has been a while, but as I recall there is only one. When you shoot the grease in it lubes that bearing then goes up through the shaft to lube the upper bushing. Is your shaft hollow with a little hole in the side? If so, that's it.

 

[Josh P]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

well i got all the required parts and plan on doing the swap out in about a week but one detail is confusing me. The Parts site says to order two lower grease seal when the diagram only shows one, im assuming one goes under the bearing and one goes on top of it to encapsulate the grease??? I completely understand it going on the bottom (with the hollow portion towards the Bering), but im worried if i install the top one with the hollow portion towards the Bering it will stop the flow of fresh grease since the two seals that section of the shaft off.

https://www.mercruiserparts.com/Sho...BAL+HOUSING+SQUARE/SPLINED+UPPER+SWIVEL+SHAFT (part #4)

Hey let me know how this goes, i have to do mine soon. I have alot of steering play. Mine already has the holes in the gimbal bracket for the pinch bolt so mines been done once inits life already.. take some pics if you could... Thanks Oh and i did read some where that the bearing sizes were different from square to spline and square to square swivel shaft.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

Hey let me know how this goes, i have to do mine soon. I have alot of steering play. Mine already has the holes in the gimbal bracket for the pinch bolt so mines been done once inits life already.. take some pics if you could... Thanks Oh and i did read some where that the bearing sizes were different from square to spline and square to square swivel shaft.

If you have play, and you have the square gimbal ring shaft, the first thing you need to do is retorque the gimbal ring clamping screws to 55 ft/lb to see if that removes the play.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

one detail is confusing me. The Parts site says to order two lower grease seal when the diagram only shows one,

I looked over my manual, and there are 2 seals but they are different. There is one that goes under the large lower bearing and one goes under the smaller upper bearing. When you grease it, the grease goes into the lower bearing and through a hole into the hollow pin up to the upper bearing. The grease is held between the two seals.

 

[Josh P]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

If you have play, and you have the square gimbal ring shaft, the first thing you need to do is retorque the gimbal ring clamping screws to 55 ft/lb to see if that removes the play.

no when mine was replaced previously it was replaced with a spline n spline shaft. i want to upgrade to the square spline shaft with the new ring with the u bolts... Can i send you a pm about a trim pump question?

 

[davidh86]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

It has been a while, but as I recall there is only one. When you shoot the grease in it lubes that bearing then goes up through the shaft to lube the upper bushing. Is your shaft hollow with a little hole in the side? If so, that's it.

Yea i figured it was a typo on the web site since all the diagrams show only one lower seal and the drives ive examined at the junk yard have grease flowing upward towards the nut (which means their is no seal impeding its flowing upward).

 

[davidh86]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

no when mine was replaced previously it was replaced with a spline n spline shaft. i want to upgrade to the square spline shaft with the new ring with the u bolts... Can i send you a pm about a trim pump question?

Oh you must mean the two holes on the side of the gimbal housing, those are access plugs not pinch bolts. Pinch bolts are what tighten the gimbal ring to the square swivel shaft. Some housings have those accesses holes from the factory so it might all still be stock. Ill take pictures as i dismantle mine so you can get an idea what ur in for. what really sucks about this repair is you kinda need to swap all the bearings and wear parts while ur in there and all the little parts and removal tools add up lol.

 

[dn010]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

Did you try removing the plugs and tightening up the retaining bolt that is on the arm inside? My steering was loose so before I went and dropped hundreds on used Alpha 1 parts; I bought the access hole kit, cut the holes, tightened up the bolt and my steering has been fine since I did it last year. Might be worth a shot especially if you already have the access holes...

 

[Josh P]

Re: New gimble ring install In a pre alpha question

Did you try removing the plugs and tightening up the retaining bolt that is on the arm inside? My steering was loose so before I went and dropped hundreds on used Alpha 1 parts; I bought the access hole kit, cut the holes, tightened up the bolt and my steering has been fine since I did it last year. Might be worth a shot especially if you already have the access holes...

I will try that. What size Allen wrench is those plugs anyone know?