New Guy and Maybe a New Boat

[one-up]

Hi. New to this forum and new to boating. Looking at buying a 2003 Four Winns 205 Sundowner. I know of the sticky on this forum for boat buying and it will certainly help once I lay hands on the boat. I won't see the boat for 3 more weeks - I'm in Florida, boat is in Russell Springs, Kentucky. Trying to do my homework on the internet before I go back north (I'm a snowbird). Below is the link to the boat:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2003-four-winns-205-sundowner-103017950

​I'm looking for input on price and drive train reliability. The boat only has 93 hours on it, but wondering if a 5.0 liter engine is big enough to push this 3,500 pound craft through the water at a decent speed, say 40-44 MPH. The other question I have is regarding the horsepower of this engine. I've looked numerous places and have found numerous answers - anywhere from 205 to 220 to 240 to 270. I'm guessing about 220. Anyone know? Also, it's has a carburetor as opposed to EFI or MPI. Is that good or bad?

​The price is $14,900 including the trailer. Looked it up on NADA and it's right at "average retail".

All input appreciated. Thank You.

 

[alldodge]

I don't think there is enough motor, and being only a single prop (not DP), it will have issues getting up. The registration sticker is from 2015 so its been sitting somewhere and not used last season. My guess is, the previous owner got tired of getting on plane with a load, he traded it in on another

Being a GL its a carb

 

[jkust]

Because the engine is an older technology, Carbed engine in the second year after small block V8 Multi port fuel injected engines came out, it will be a 220HP model (someone chime in here if the Volvos were 225 as i'm having a brain block at the moment). The MPI engines are either 260 or 270hp depending on if it is Mercruiser or Volvo. The original owner opted for what was likely the least expensive engine option. When you look at older engines, depending on the year prior to 1996 when Vortec Heads and improved intake came out, the HP numbers are lower and then when you get a little older yet, the engines HP was measured at the flywheel and not the prop so the flywheel HP that you see is a lower hp number at the prop, apples to apples. As for the hours, there is no way to verify them on a carbed engine as is possible on an MPI engine with a scan tool. In other words, first and foremost, condition trumps hours but that anybody can simply cut power to that analog hour gauge if they so chose and plug it back in when they sell. Because we are so far along with MPI engines and because MPI is superior in most ways and because of the huge supply of cheap, used, older MPI engines, I would keep right on looking for MPI. There are plus's and minuses to every technology and technically MPI does have downsides such as more expensive to repair and less easily repaired by the user vs carbs. I can see why they skimped on it in 2003 as MPI was almost brand new in small block V8's (5.0, 5.7, 6.2) and V6's (4.3) and an expensive option back then where as it existed for several years prior in large block v8's (7.4, etc).

 

[SeaDooSam]

What has me worried most is that the thing has only 95 hours and it is 15 years old. That averages out to about 6 hours per year. That is very few which tells me the boat was sitting. Sometimes high hours is better on a boat. When it sits, all the seals will go bad among other things.

 

[alldodge]

95 hours and it is 15 years old

Good catch SDS, I would say the meter has been replaced or doesn't work

 

[one-up]

Hey guys, thanks for the all the input. Much appreciated. I'm a motorcycle rider and use the motorcycle forums frequently, so when questions about boats came up I naturally went to a boat forum. Good info here. Now it looks like I better check around for boats with MPI. Thanks again...........

 

[alldodge]

I prefer fuel injected motors over carbs, but the carb in this case isn't the issue, it's the size of the motor. The old saying "there is no replacement for displacement" holds true with boats. If the boat had a 5.7 or 6.2 would be great for that size boat. The larger the boat the more hp needed. Have a good one and come on back and hang out

 

[tpenfield]

Engine is OK, but a little on the light side for power. The 93 hours versus 14 years of life is suspect. There is probably a story there that you will want to know.

I would check the engine compartment and the ski lockers for bare or barely treated wood that makes up the stringers and bulkheads of the boat. I've know of some Four Winns boats of that era where the parts of the hull structure were not adequately coated with fiberglass or resin, but merely given a mild spray of gelcoat.

 

[one-up]

Hey Again. Found a 2000 Larson 220 Cabrio Sport w/7.4L Gi with a dual prop. 463 hours. Much bigger engine and I think the "Gi" indicates Fuel Injection, but boat weighs 4200 pounds. 800 pounds more than the Four Winns above. Seems to be in pretty good shape for 17 years old. Link to website below:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...port-102904032

Any and all input is much appreciated. Thank You.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Hey Again. Found a 2000 Larson 220 Cabrio Sport w/7.4L Gi with a dual prop. 463 hours. Much bigger engine and I think the "Gi" indicates Fuel Injection, but boat weighs 4200 pounds. 800 pounds more than the Four Winns above. Seems to be in pretty good shape for 17 years old. Link to website below:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...port-102904032

Any and all input is much appreciated. Thank You.

A Larson of that era will not have wood stringers, although the transom and deck may be wood encased in fiberglass. Larsons do seem to be pretty heavy boats for their size. Mine is like that, too, and I think it makes for a nice ride.

 

[alldodge]

There asking standard retail for it. Boat sits in the water from the pics and it is bottom painted, also being in Minnesota it was used in fresh water. Should be enough power and room to have some fun with. I would find someone to survey the boat to make sure the motor, hull and fittings are In good shape. Need a certified surveyor that has insurance to cover something they miss.

Just a thought, being in Florida you might want to look for boats with closed cooling. A fresh water boat with open cooling is good, but in slat they will need more maintenance.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

The first thing that struck me was such low hours on a 15 year old boat. I know absolutely nada about I/O, thank goodness for the guys here eh? I would pass as well based on the experts opinions here. Good luck looking and let us see the next option. I love shopping with others money!

 

[jkust]

That Larson was a river boat for sure as Hastings is a river town and there are few lakes in the southern part of MN. The hours are appropriate and the engine seems to be as well. Looks to be a lot of boat for the money.

 

[one-up]

There asking standard retail for it. Boat sits in the water from the pics and it is bottom painted, also being in Minnesota it was used in fresh water. Should be enough power and room to have some fun with. I would find someone to survey the boat to make sure the motor, hull and fittings are In good shape. Need a certified surveyor that has insurance to cover something they miss.

Just a thought, being in Florida you might want to look for boats with closed cooling. A fresh water boat with open cooling is good, but in slat they will need more maintenance.

​I'm just a snowbird in Florida. No plans to use it in salt water, but thanks for the tip. You did say one thing that made me curious though. You mentioned the bottom being painted. I don't know the significance of bottom painting. Is that good? Are they trying to hide something? Please educate me. Thanks.

 

[alldodge]

​I'm just a snowbird in Florida. No plans to use it in salt water, but thanks for the tip. You did say one thing that made me curious though. You mentioned the bottom being painted. I don't know the significance of bottom painting. Is that good? Are they trying to hide something? Please educate me. Thanks.

Any boat which sits in the water for long periods needs to be bottom painted. The paint is needed to keep water from penetrating the gelcoat and causing blisters between the gelcoat and fiberglass. The bottom paint on a trailerable boat is a negative (reducing cost) and a positive on a boat which will sit in the water. That said, if a boat sits in the water for long periods, every 5 years it will need to be removed and repainted.

So if you plan to keep a boat on the trailer or lift, then I would not get a boat which has been painted unless you get a good price reduction

 

[fishin98]

Go take a look at it on your way home...I know the area...I'm willing to bet the boat spend the majority of it's time on Lake Cumberland, you might even get a on water test., Fastest directions from Fl..I75 north to Chattanooga, exit 3 Sr 153, west to US27, North to SR111, North to US127, North on US127, cross the Dam @ Lake Cumberland and your there in Russell Springs...Beautiful Scenery!

 

[one-up]

Go take a look at it on your way home...I know the area...I'm willing to bet the boat spend the majority of it's time on Lake Cumberland, you might even get a on water test., Fastest directions from Fl..I75 north to Chattanooga, exit 3 Sr 153, west to US27, North to SR111, North to US127, North on US127, cross the Dam @ Lake Cumberland and your there in Russell Springs...Beautiful Scenery!

​Thanks fishin98. And yes, Lake Cumberland is where the previous owner did their boating. I probably will stop in Russell Springs, KY on way home to check out the 2003 Four Winns. I know the engine H.P. is on the low side and it has a carburetor (as opposed to E.F.I.), but I really like the boat. I like the 2000 Larson too, but ALLDODGE pointed out the bottom paint and the fact that it means it was sitting in the water a lot - maybe enough to cause problems - little scary for a novice like me. Another thing about the Larson is the weight - 4200+ pounds!!

​Supposedly the reason for the low hours on the Four Winns is because the people who owned it have many hobbies and many different kinds of big boy toys. Evidently the boat didn't have a high priority in the way of entertainment. This is salesman speak, so................

And I really don't have to be in a hurry (I keep telling myself), so I'll keep looking around too.

 

[fishin98]

​Thanks fishin98. And yes, Lake Cumberland is where the previous owner did their boating. I probably will stop in Russell Springs, KY on way home to check out the 2003 Four Winns. I know the engine H.P. is on the low side and it has a carburetor (as opposed to E.F.I.), but I really like the boat. I like the 2000 Larson too, but ALLDODGE pointed out the bottom paint and the fact that it means it was sitting in the water a lot - maybe enough to cause problems - little scary for a novice like me. Another thing about the Larson is the weight - 4200+ pounds!!

​Supposedly the reason for the low hours on the Four Winns is because the people who owned it have many hobbies and many different kinds of big boy toys. Evidently the boat didn't have a high priority in the way of entertainment. This is salesman speak, so................

And I really don't have to be in a hurry (I keep telling myself), so I'll keep looking around too.

For many years Lake Cumberland was drawn down so they could repair the dam. Many of the launch ramps were unusable. There are many boat dealers in the area....check them out!

 

[briangcc]

I would shy away from Volvo...and that's saying a lot since I owned one for 12 years. Dealer network is drying up, finding parts is a chore, and expect to pay through the nose for the parts you do find. To give you an idea the fuel pump on my 130 Hour 5.0L MPI (270HP) was $900 alone. That is just the part, not labor. Guys at the marina darn near had a heart attack when they were told the price of the part.

Merc's have a large dealer network and parts are much cheaper/easier to locate.

​It's one of the many reasons my '05 FourWinns is now sitting at a marina traded in on a new Merc powered boat.

 

[one-up]

Well guys, here I am again asking for your help. Found a 2000 Monterey 210 Montura L.E. with a 5.7 EFI engine. It's a clean looking boat, but suspiciously low engine hours. Maybe rebuilt. Would have to inquire. Check it out below:

https://athensga.craigslist.org/boa/6058498950.html

​It's priced below NADA. Price reduced to $11,500. It's got a 5 blade prop which I thought to be unusual - maybe for efficiency? It's a 3,000 pound boat according to NADA specs.

​Monterey is not a name like Sea Ray, Four Winns, Larson, Crownline - you know, boat brands that you hear of even if you're a novice like me. So, is Monterey a good boat or should I keep looking? This is the right size boat and engine for me, however, I could easily walk.................not in love with it. Thanks again.