New issue on the 105 water pump. Gearcase issue.

[stephenca118]

Thought I would start a new thread as the problem is different.
The engine serial #1057HA says this is a 1970 105.
Supposedly this gearcase was rebuilt by a marine shop 10 years ago but never run.
I reinstalled the 12 blade impeller to get the engine started. Installed the gearcase (one piece). Installed the prop, pin, and hand tightened the cone nut by hand.
Putting forward pressure, by hand, on the prop and rotating it causes it to bind on what I am guessing is the zinc anode, per the picture in clymers.
But of course the picture is different than what I am seeing. Or I am missing some parts?
Per the picture breakdown on page 354 I am missing a prop spacer, flare washer, plain washer and stop nut.
But I have a pin that goes through the prop hub and the splined shaft.
I am thinking this illustration is for a later model?
I may also be missing a forward gear thrust washer.
I am not apprehensive about tearing into the gearcase but the book calls for a lot of special tools. Anyone have luck improvising in place of special tools?
Attached are pictures of what I took apart. You can see the scrape marks on what I think is the anode and only in one spot. I rotated the prop 180 on the shaft and the mark is in the same spot. Bent prop shaft?
And should I unpaint the anode?
Thank you for any feedback,
Steve
I will attach pictures of what I took apart.

 

[las]

Hi Steve, that doesn't sound good...
I would remove the prop and verify with a straight edge or some contraption if the prop shaft is bent.
It could be the anode sitting a little higher in one side and the prop itself not 100% straight on the hub, but you have to find out.
My lower unit is different, I use the setup with the thrust washer plus a few other washers and a big nut and a cone to finish it of. I would agree that you have the wrong schematics for your unit.
Could your prop be pressed to far on the hub?
Maybe google and see if similar prop's looks roughly similar in distances from where the pin locks it to the prop.
Does the cone sit alright on the prop when you put it on? Or is there a gap.

If you find the prop shaft to be bent I would give it a shot straightening it.

 

[jerryjerry05]

You don't have a thrust hub on that unit.
I believe the props located with a pin.
The pin keeps the prop spaced out so it won't rub.
Look on the prop shaft for a hole and align with the hole on the collar of the prop.
The latest parts diagram(74)doesn't show the pin???
Picture #2 shows the prop on the splines, just align the holes.

 

[Nordin]

That prop does not look like the OEM.
Looked at one of my 75Hp with 2 piece LU in the garage and the prop should not go over the smaller edge of the casting at the bearing carrier (pic 3). The prop has a small gap to the bearing carrier.
As jerryjerry says no washers or spacers on these units.
The drive pin hold the prop in place and the prop nut will cover the drive pin when threaded all way in so it would not fall out.

 

[stephenca118]

Good morning gentlemen and thank you very much for the feedback and advice.
las, the prop is off so I will check as best I can to see if the shaft is bent. And I will look closely at the anode and prop hub. I was concerned the thrust washer was not installed which would seem to me to give me a gap between the prop and the anode. But only a teardown will answer that. The prop shaft does not seem to have much if any end play, I will put a dial indicator to check closely.
Jerry, yes it does have the pin, and the cone goes over it to lock it in place. The diagram is different, does not show the pin I have, just the big cotter pin to lock the cone.
Nordin, I agree, I think the prop is not OEM. And the pin, I believe it is a shear pin, holds the prop in place and the cone nut covers it.
So today I will check, the best I can, to see if the prop shaft seems bent.
I will look at the prop closely and check the hub. But if the prop moved on the hub then the pin holes would not line up.
And I will check the anode, but it looks original or new.
Then book says the anode should not be painted, as the plan is for the boat to be in the water during summer, should I bead the anode?
It is just the thought of a missing thrust washer at the forward gear, but I would expect more severe end play on the prop shaft if that was the case. Am I thinking backwards on that?
Thank you all again for your input and have a great weekend,
Steve

 

[Nordin]

Stephenca118 the pin is not a shear pin.
It is a drive pin, because the hub has a rubber bushing pressed inside the prop. Chrysler started with this construction in mid 60.s.
The end play of the prop shaft should be 0,01 in plus/minus 0,001 in.

 

[stephenca118]

Good morning Nordin, Thank you for the info. I see you are correct as the pin does go through the splines.
I did some measurements and the end play is about .008. The up down lateral play is also about .008. The out of round on the prop shaft is about .001 at the base of the splines.
Came back to get the book, so I will continue to look at it, among other projects today.
Thank you again,
Steve

 

[las]

If you have that little out of round your shaft is not bend I would say.
Most likely something with the prop.
But always exiting to stumble across yet another problem with these old farts, and then fixing it.

 

[stephenca118]

Good morning, well after a lot of looking and head scratching I think it just is a simple problem of the prop moving on the hub. I noticed there was a bit of slop where the drive pin goes through the hub and shaft. So I pressed the hub in about 1/16 of an inch. And it pressed very easy, did not take much.
This has been sitting out for the last ten years, so I am guessing this is the issue. The prop loose on the hub.
I will go put it in the river today and see how it runs, see if there are any hull leaks, and see if the cooling system is working.
Then look to see if the prop can be repaired? Or maybe it will be fine the way it is.
Thank you all again for the interest in helping and the input. I sure am learning a lot! And glad I did not tear into the gearcase.
Steve

 

[las]

Well let us know how things turn out.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The prop: lock the motor in gear and try to move the prop?
It shouldn't be able to move, but the prop turning in water will be the test.
Mark the hub and go for a ride, then check the marks and see if the hubs spun.
ANY!! prop repair shop should be able to rehub your prop.
If not you can do it yourself if you have a 20t press and access to the hub.

 

[stephenca118]

Thank you both for the feedback. I did just get back from taking the boat out for the first voyage, in probably over 10 years.
The engine ran great. Good water out the discharge. Seemed to be charging about 13V. Smooth cruising at 30.
A bit of vibration in gear at idle. A lot of clunking in reverse at idle, thinking some kind of adjustment.
The prop did not move on the hub, so I think it is good enough.
Still some minor things to do but I think the cooling and prop issue are done.
Thank you all again for your help, ideas and feedback on this.
Steve

 

[jerryjerry05]

Try adjusting the clunk in R
Or it's gonna screw the Foward up too.

 

[las]

I agree with jerryjerry.
With these gearboxes you would prefer having some forward bias so that when you come out of forward you go slightly past neutral into reverse to actually get neutral. But maybe that's what you got?
At least if it's old and worn and have developed some play over the years.
Either way you have to be sure it's adjusted correct or you soon find yourself with a skipping forward gear and a teardown in the horizon.

 

[stephenca118]

Thank you for the advice. I plan to carefully check the gear case adjustment. I have the book and there are a couple of good videos on the subject.
Thank you again and have a great weekend!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Should have added: sometimes all it takes is 1 turn on the connector on the cable to make it work right.