New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Hello all! Nice forum! Anyway, I'm upgrading from my 1993 Crownline CR250 to a 1990 cruisers 2870 holiday this Thursday.

First, I'm not new to boating, just new to this forum. Second, I'm going to ask the typical boat buyer question... Anybody here have experience with the 2870? The boat is super clean and has very well documented service / maintenance records. She has twin 4.3LX's (which is what I wanted) with 600 hours. Doing my sea trial on Thursday but know from the records that the PO put on 4 blade 19's and got 27mph at 3500 rpm, 34mph at 4600, which really appeals to me. my current boat only cruises 24mph at 3600 and doesn't like to get on plane beyond having 4 people aboard. I'm a fan of the 4.3LX because I had one in a Glasstron 185 that ran great, was fast (56 gps) and was really good on fuel.

Anyway, would love to hear of any Cruisers experience and look forward to contributing to the forum.

Chris

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Good luck and hope all goes well !! I have a friend with a similar size searay.He has the same v6 engines.He regrets getting the v6s.Pay attention to the mph,the records sound a little optomistic to me.Hope I am wrong for your sake but I dont think so.Charlie

 

[NHGuy]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

I'm no expert, I can tell you the one boat I ran with a 4.3 single felt smooth but used lots of fuel since it was heavy for a 4.3. I guess you could make a deal to top off a tank before and after the test to check consumption.
I have an over powered boat and I never need wide open throttle unless I'm towing skiers with my tall prop on there. Lots of folks on here claim that if you have the engine displacement and don't use it all the time you get good economy, plus you have the power for when it's needed. I can say that when I run my speed prop and just loaf along I get good economy. At the same speed with a power prop I use bunches of fuel, but it feels like I could tow a barge, just slower.
What I am thinking is the V6's are going to give you marginal top speeds and acceleration. Will you have lots of people aboard? That could be the thing that really puts you at a disadvantage with the smaller displacement motors.
Don't cancel the sea trial though. Just be critical and nosy, you need to be satisfied that the boat will serve you well. Whatever the result don't deal right away, think and decide. If you like the boat get it surveyed by a pro. Maybe give us your thoughts, we will definitely give you ours!

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Wow... I'm surprised that I've got two nays on the engine package. I really do not want twin V8's because I'm convinced they will almost double my current consumption. I have quite a few dock mates with compatible sized boats with the same power package and marvel at their economy and how well they do. I've ridden on one them that is a 29 ft Larsen and that had plenty of power with 5 of us on board. His are the 2 barrel engines.

One issue with my current boat is the cockpit lay out just about forces guests to sit at the stern which is a big part of the problem on that boat. The one I'm looking at has much better seating layout toward the front of the cockpit. I'm also thinking that the 4.3's are LX's with 4barrels and 205 hp each and are much less weight at the stern than their 5.7 brethren.

 

[JoLin]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Hi, life- couple of observations...

The seller's perfomance figures sound about right. I do 27-28mph @ 3400 .

I'm sure your boat is as heavy or heavier than mine (7400 lbs. dry). If you carry more than 4 people aboard regularly you might not be thrilled with the performance. Mine's fuel injected and puts out more power than yours (205 per engine), though that difference may be offset by the props on the Cruisers (mine are stock aluminum 3-blade 19 pitch). On Father's Day I carried a load of 7 adults with full water and fuel tanks. I wouldn't want to carry that many on a regular basis. It wasn't awful but it's the only time I've wished I had V-8's. With my normal load (2-4 adults) the boat is great.

I had upsized from a 1999 Chris*Craft 240 EC with 5.7 and duo-prop. That boat seemed to be immune to whatver load I put in it.

Cruisers makes great boats, BUT this one is 21 years old. I'd strongly suggest a professional survey before forking over any dough.

Best of luck!

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

JoLin, thanks for the response. Your situation sounds like us. 9 times out of ten, it's just my wife and I. Having more than four adults would be rare for us but sometimes, we will have a total of 5, 2 adults and 3 teens. The 4.3 LX's are also rated at 205 hp. I wish I could afford the fuel injection though. I'm not buying a speed boat and would be happy to cruise at 25mph without having to run the crap out of the engines like I do now.

 

[JoLin]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Given the way you plan to use the boat, I'd say if you're happy with it on the sea trial you'll probably be okay. Here's something you might find handy- Four Winns' archives, for comparison purposes. They're the only manufacturer I've seen that provides performance and fuel consumption figures for every boat and engine combination they offered in any given year. Very handy research tool. Click on the 'Past Specs' link to see all that...

http://www.fourwinns.com/service/past_product

In the case of my boat, for example, the consumption penalty for twin FI 5.7's over the FI 4.3's is about 40% @ 3000 rpm... 20 gph vs. 14 gph. At higher rpm's the V-8's do a better job of moving the boat, and the difference is less. 20% at 3500 rpm.

In other words, enough info to make my head explode as I over-analyze everything

 

[45Auto]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Nice link to the Four Winns archives, JoLin. Lots of real data there.

I really do not want twin V8's because I'm convinced they will almost double my current consumption. I have quite a few dock mates with compatible sized boats with the same power package and marvel at their economy and how well they do.

If you do a little research on measured fuel consumption versus what other boat owners claim for mileage, you'll learn that the actual data shows that engine size is actually very insignificant. The size and weight of the boat will determine what kind of economy it gets. Boattest.com has lots of info on different boats, the Four Winns archives JoLin referenced are also excellent.

If you think twin V8's will double your current fuel consumption, then the V6's should make you very happy. You'll get about 1.2 MPG with the V6's instead of the 1.1 MPG you would get with the V8's. That'll only be about 1.9 times your current consumption instead of double.

Gasoline produces about 11HP per hour per gallon of gas. It will require 20 to 30 gallons per hour of gas (200 to 300 HP) to cruise a boat the size and weight you are talking about. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference whether you burn it in a little cylinder at a lot of RPM or a big cylinder at a lower RPM.

The nice thing about having excess power is that if you do want to take more people out, that excess power is there for you if your throttle hand wants to use it.

The Four Winns archives had performance info on a 1990 285 Vista, 28' long with a weight of about 7400 pounds, probably very similar to a 1990 Cruisers like you're looking at. I graphed the data for the twin 4.3, twin 5.0, twin 5.7, twin 5.8, and single 460 engine packages they showed. As you can see, at 25 - 30 MPH, you're going to get around 1.1 to 1.2 MPG with twins no matter what engines you have. The state of tune of your engines and how hard you hammer the throttle will easily make MUCH more difference than the .1 MPG difference you see due to motor size.

Your best fuel efficiency would actually come from using a big single, primarily because it only has to overcome the water drag of a single outdrive.

http://www.fourwinns.com/past_product/specs//1990/25 285 Vista (p66-69).pdf

 

[45Auto]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

In the case of my boat, for example, the consumption penalty for twin FI 5.7's over the FI 4.3's is about 40% @ 3000 rpm... 20 gph vs. 14 gph. At higher rpm's the V-8's do a better job of moving the boat, and the difference is less. 20% at 3500 rpm.

Why compare different size engines at the same RPM? The bigger engines are moving the boat faster at the same RPM, water drag goes up as the square of the speed. A more meaningful comparison is to compare engines at equal speeds.

According to the 1997 278 Vista data, on your boat at 3000 RPM the 4.3's are going 26 MPH (15 GPH) while the 5.7's are going 32 MPH (21 GPH). At 3500 RPM the 4.3's are doing 32 MPH (20 GPH)while the 5.7's are doing 38 (24 GPH).

If you look at both engines at the same speed, at 32 MPH the 4.3's are burning 20 GPH at 3500 RPM, while the 5.7's are burning 21 GPH at 3000 RPM. 1.60 vs 1.52 MPG, about a 5% difference.

If you want to go 38 MPH, the 4.3's are burning 23 GPH at 4000 RPM while the 5.7's are burning 24 GPH at 3500 RPM. 1.65 vs 1.58 MPG, about a 4% difference.

That's a 1 Gallon per Hour fuel consumption difference at equal speeds in both cases. 1 GPH at cruising speeds is pretty insignificant in my boating world. But if it makes you happier to think that you're getting 40% better fuel economy with V6's, keep on boatin!

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Thanks for the information... BUT I can't believe this seems to be turning into a p_ssing match. Looking at your example Four Winns, there is a 3 gallon per hour difference between the 4.3's at 27mph and 5.7's at 27mph. The 4.3's would be running higher rpm, but would be in a nice efficient economy range. The 5.7's would be running less rpm at the same speed but burning more fuel. At 3500 rpm, the 5.7's definitely get a lot more speed, but burn 32 gal per hour. I don't want to be there.

One thing that you're forgetting is the the 4.3 LX's are 4 barrel vs. the 175hp 2 barrel 4.3's listed. I've proven this over and over again when I had my first Crownline 225, swapping out a 2 barrel carberator to a 4 barrel is much better on fuel in the mid throttle range. The reason is that the primaries on a carter/edelbrock carb are smaller than a the 2 barrel venturies at the same given rpm. The examples from Four Winns were 2 barrel and definitely could have done better in the half throttle (3500) range with 4 barrels, but would be more economical at full throttle where I never run.

Again, as I said in my first post, if I get mid twenties or better at 3500rpm, I will be VERY happy. I don't need to cruise faster than that or burn that rate of fuel.

 

[45Auto]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

I will be VERY happy

That's all that matters!

I just found it kind of funny that you didn't want twin V8's doubling your current fuel consumption, but seemed perfectly happy with twin V6's which will be about 10% less than the V8's at best.

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Why compare different size engines at the same RPM? The bigger engines are moving the boat faster at the same RPM, water drag goes up as the square of the speed. A more meaningful comparison is to compare engines at equal speeds.

According to the 1997 278 Vista data, on your boat at 3000 RPM the 4.3's are going 26 MPH (15 GPH) while the 5.7's are going 32 MPH (21 GPH). At 3500 RPM the 4.3's are doing 32 MPH (20 GPH)while the 5.7's are doing 38 (24 GPH).

If you look at both engines at the same speed, at 32 MPH the 4.3's are burning 20 GPH at 3500 RPM, while the 5.7's are burning 21 GPH at 3000 RPM. 1.60 vs 1.52 MPG, about a 5% difference.

If you want to go 38 MPH, the 4.3's are burning 23 GPH at 4000 RPM while the 5.7's are burning 24 GPH at 3500 RPM. 1.65 vs 1.58 MPG, about a 4% difference.

That's a 1 Gallon per Hour fuel consumption difference at equal speeds in both cases. 1 GPH at cruising speeds is pretty insignificant in my boating world. But if it makes you happier to think that you're getting 40% better fuel economy with V6's, keep on boatin!

That's all great IF you're looking for speed, but when you're not, and mid 20's is satisfactory I'll take 3 gallons per hour less. Marina gas is at $4.89 per gallon X 3 = $14.67 per hour of running the boat. Now, my current boat I have to run that in the 3600-3700 to get 22-24 mph. It's just tapping into the secondaries so I'd guess based on your chart and dividing by two because of the single, I'm probably burning between 18-20 GPH. 22Gph is acceptable to me for gaining a couple of MPH with a boat that's 2 ft longer and 1 ft wider. If I want speed, I'll buy a fast boat.

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

That's all that matters!

I just found it kind of funny that you didn't want twin V8's doubling your current fuel consumption, but seemed perfectly happy with twin V6's which will be about 10% less than the V8's at best.

I disagree with your math... 22gph of the 4.3 divided by the 32 gph of the 5.7 is more like 32%. Both at 3500 rpm. If we go by speed, 22 gph divided by 25 gph is 12%.

 

[45Auto]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

I just found it kind of funny that you didn't want twin V8's doubling your current fuel consumption, but seemed perfectly happy with twin V6's which will be about 10% less than the V8's at best.

LiFeStArTs@FoRtY[/B]]
If we go by speed, 22 gph divided by 25 gph is 12%.

You're right, I was wrong, an actual 12% difference is much more significant than the 10% I estimated.

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

$4.89 per gallon... every little bit counts! LOL

 

[JoLin]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

According to the 1997 278 Vista data, on your boat at 3000 RPM the 4.3's are going 26 MPH (15 GPH) while the 5.7's are going 32 MPH (21 GPH). At 3500 RPM the 4.3's are doing 32 MPH (20 GPH)while the 5.7's are doing 38 (24 GPH).

If you look at both engines at the same speed, at 32 MPH the 4.3's are burning 20 GPH at 3500 RPM, while the 5.7's are burning 21 GPH at 3000 RPM. 1.60 vs 1.52 MPG, about a 5% difference.

If you want to go 38 MPH, the 4.3's are burning 23 GPH at 4000 RPM while the 5.7's are burning 24 GPH at 3500 RPM. 1.65 vs 1.58 MPG, about a 4% difference.

Okay, I was making a Q&D comparison for the OP, primarily to show that fuel consumption with V-8's doesn't 'double' and in fact approaches parity as speeds increase. You did the math, I didn't.

One other factor to consider depending on where one boats... 32 MPH is NOT a comfortable speed in the Great South Bay for my 27, unless I get out very early when the water is smooth. The wind and chop invarably kick up by mid-morning and my optimum cruise speed is 27-28 mph at about 3400 rpm. That's on a 'normally calm' day. I often need to drop into the low 20's. Any rougher than that and I stay home.

In order to maintain that speed with 5.7's I'd be dropping the rpm's below 3000. In my experience with both the Four Winns and my 5.7 Chris*Craft, these motors are most comfortable and efficient in the 3200-3500 rpm range.

As I stated earlier, you can do this stuff until your head explodes. Fact of the matter is, I found a boat I like equipped with V-6's, and they definitely do the job with good power, fuel economy, 4 fewer cylinders to maintain and more room in the ER.

My .02

 

[25thmustang]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

I own a 29' Cruisers Inc. although a much different boat, the Cruiser brand seems to be a good all around boat. They seem to get a fair amount of usable space out of them, and although mines a twin inboard V8 and weighs a good deal more (9600 lbs dry according to literature), I cruise around 22-23 mph and top out at 35-36 mph. I never find myself over 3500 RPM for any extended period of time, except when I have the boat WOT just to clean her cob webs out.

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

Thanks all... I appreciate everyones help and opinions. Keep'm coming.

 

[boat1010]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

LOL WOW!!! I don't think I put that much thought into it when I got married... I would just take the boat for the test drive. If ya like it get it. I don't think I have EVER let MPG effect what I bought. I'm sure if you like the test run and buy it you will be happy.. Best of luck.. Happy boating.

 

[LiFeStArTs@FoRtY]

Re: New to forum, getting another boat Thursday!

TODAY IS THE DAY!!! I do the sea trial at 11:30 and if all goes well, I will be the proud owner of my 5 TH boat. My current boat is named "Just One More..."

So this one will be "Just One More...II".

Wish me luck as I'm keeping my fingers crossed!