New to me Rude 140, sneezing, won't idle and low top speed

[racerone]

The red lever on the primer injection valve does not move when unit is activated.---The red lever is there to manually open the valve !

 

[ctravis595]

Thanks! I posted compression and symptoms. I'll test spark and clean carbs and post results

 

[oldboat1]

and fuel contamination always a possibility (above) -- confirm before carb work. May need to clean out carbs for bad fuel, but better to do it only once.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Double check to be sure the red primer solenoid lever is in the "run" position, and not the "service" position. In the run position, the red lever will be parallel to the length of the primer solenoid body. All 140 engines have power trim/tilt standard since the first one came out in 1977.

 

[ctravis595]

Awesome sounds like I need to get my trim switch wired up and see if the unit still functions. I was wondering why it seemed they expected people to be able to pull up a 300 pound v4 for trailering...

I'm confused what you mean by "parallel to the starter body"..in the "normal" position in which the engine usually operates, the orange lever points to the left hand side of the vessel

While I manually flip the lever it points to the right hand side of the vessel. The lever is perpendicular to the starter body

Edit:if I had bad gas it would have been burned within a day or so. My tank is only 6 gallons so I can keep a decent eye on fuel quality and if I did get bad fuel once I'm sure it's been burned by now.

Speaking of which, I think I am getting poor fuel economy. I'm starting to question whether the low compression cylinder was ever not firing, I might have wiggled apart the spark plug wire myself during inspection/compression testing as I've not noticed much improvement when I plugged it back in

Also noticed extra oil/fuel on that spark plug so now I'm really wondering what's going on with that cylinder. Spark plugs are all new NGK's with minor wear and tear but the spark plug in the potentially non firing cylinder is in slightly better condition as if it wasn't really being fired

So maybe I need to look into ignition coil or further electrical problems

Sorry to divert from the original bad idle/rough start/low top speed troubleshooting - I still plan on doing spark test and cleaning the carbs anyways just so I have piece of mind that they are spotless

 

[racerone]

Does spark jump a gap of 7/16" on all 4 leads, Yes or no ??----These questions must be answered.--Saying that you have " good spark " means very little here.----Might not be a bad idea to remove the bypass cover on the low compression cylinder.---Six small screws and a new $2.00 gasket for that inspection.

 

[emdsapmgr]

You have not indicated just which year 140 you have. The trim system differs by model year. The early trim systems were 3 wire systems and require a separate wire harness and trim box in order to function. Used one conventional solenoid. Mid year 1981, the trim motors changed to a 2-wire system, and used a control box which was converted to dual trim relays. The trim systems require this control box, and parts are not interchangeable between systems.

 

[ctravis595]

My starter died, as soon as I replace the starter I'll post results of spark test when I get a new starter. I've read the engine needs to generate power from the starting for the ignition system to start firing

I can't locate the ID plate on the mid section of my engine. Only numbers I can find on the entire engine are on the carb

 

[racerone]

Post pictures of your motor for identification.-----Correct , the starter MUST spin the flywheel rapidly to generate the spark.---Most folks crank these starters for too long and they are easily damaged.

 

[ctravis595]

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let me know if these aren't very telling. As soon as i finish deciphering the model year I can know for sure which starter to order

 

[oldboat1]

Based solely on hood markings, it looks to me like a '78 (would be model 140840C, 140843C, or 140883C).

[ed. starter number (Bosch) would be 10629-23-m03, or Prestolite model Mgl-4109. Maybe one of those numbers shows up on your starter.]

[ed2. lower carb assembly: 0389784 (early) 0391419 (late), upper assembly: 0389785 (early), 0391420 (late)]

 

[emdsapmgr]

Based on the top of the carbs and the airbox cover, looks to be an 84 model. It has the unusual mounting for the choke solenoid and the fuel pump. The cowling is from an earlier model, probably not original to the engine. Also, in this timeframe, OMC began painting the blocks standard black, instead of the color of the rest of the engine. It is hard to tell if the engine is a 140 or not, there is not a good view of the bubble back exhaust. It's possible this is a 90 or 115 flatback model.

 

[jakedaawg]

It is not a 78. It has the primer instead of choke. (the red lever also appears to not be completely closed) It also doesn't appear to be a 140 (no bubble back)

 

[ctravis595]

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you guys might be onto something...there is no bubbleback

BUT it does have 140 carbs (or at least the stamp on the carbs says its for a 140)

i've also read somewhere that at one point in the 80's they stopped using the bubbleback on the 135/140's apparently?

i'm just confused why someone would throw 140 carbs on a 115... also buy a 140 cover and not go ahead and throw on the bubbleback too

my primer lever is turned "all the way" in that direction...i think that's fully closed but not 100% sure

was the bubbleback maybe replaced with the flat plate during a rebuild maybe?

keep in mind the choke/primer has been replaced. who knows if they replaced it with the correct part number

more pics of the non existant bubble

edit - a thread where someone notes adding the bubble without doing any major machine work and still getting plenty of added horsepower. if I really do have a 115 with 140 carbs i think i'm really interested in adding a bubble. even if it just gets me to 130 HP

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?192347-90-140-v4-cross-flow-blocks/page3

STILL doesn't explain why this boat only goes 25 mph. I think my johnson 48 spl would take my 17 ft CC about 25 at least

 

[racerone]

The 135 / 140 from 73 to 84 always used the bubble back exhaust !!!-------The " bubble back " was always used on the highest output crossflow models.----But when marketing and propshaft HP get involved the bubble was used on the 110 /115HP rated models.---Your motor appears to be one where I would carefully examine / test everything before spending any $$$$$$

 

[jakedaawg]

Is the motor running decent now and you are just concerned with speed?

If so, have you checked to make sure your vessel is not water logged? Lots of pretty boats weigh twice what they should.

 

[ctravis595]

thanks for the guidance and reassurance everyone. i definitely need to check to make sure its not getting wet downstairs. it's something i've been putting off. the boat is old and has patchwork


I'm pretty certain this is a 115 because of the flatplate. I am happy it already has 140 carbs....wait

-is that why it's running with a low top speed? ...all the other parts he replaced (fuel pump, spark plugs, ignition coils, etc) might also be for a 140..i know the parts are often interchangeable between the two engines but who knows

gave the guy who sold the engine to me a piece of my mind, asked if he had $100 bucks so i could buy the bubble manifold myself...he says "it was sold to me as a 140" who knows..i gave him about half of what he was asking for, so i guess it's not bad.

 

[emdsapmgr]

When you get into an engine that has mis-matched parts, you can get into performance issues. For instance, if it's a 90 with 140 carbs, the 140 carbs could be overfueling so much that it can't run top WOT rpms. It could be out of time, who knows what else is mis-matched. If the flywheel does not match the timer base, that could be cause for poor performance. Probably best to really figure out just what does match on the engine. You just can't put 140 carbs on a small hp engine block and expect it to run correctly. Most always you will be into rejetting one direction or the other. I'm not saying to replace the 140 carbs-it may eventually run great with them, just make sure they are jetted correctly. That's a trial and error approach done on a hot afternoon in the summer with maybe 6 different sets of high speed jets.

 

[ctravis595]

I think you guys are spot-on

I think it's a thrown-together collaboration of evinrude motor parts, and I also think the hull is water logged

I would love to find the previous owner who drilled THROUGH the hull to attach the floorboard

There's literally 12 carpentry screws sticking out of the bottom of the boat. Right through the fiberglass bottom

Upon further research it seems I also need to figure out if the foam in my boat is waterlogged too

I'm getting a starter for Christmas, as soon as I get her running again I would love to resume the troubleshooting with the spark/rough idle. Hope it's something as simple as a power pack

 

[ctravis595]

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