Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

[Darren Nemeth]

After a long winter, I'm getting ready to restart work on the Batboat.

The remaining jobs to take on are repairing and reattaching the splashwell, new Batboat detailings and new paint.

Here is the problem; I know absolutely NOTHING about preparing the outside of the hull. I've come to you guys in the past and the instructions I got were priceless. This project would have never gone anywhere without you at the iboats forum!! Please help me out again!

Basically, what I have here is an average, lightly used 40+ year old boat with scars and dings in the hull. All the structurals are completely repaired.

My main question right now is what do I need to do to the top and bottom sides of the hull before they are ready to paint?

Here is a rough checklist of problems.

* there are the normal spider cracks in the gel coat.
* A bunch of holes through the bottom of the hull that I repaired from inside the hull with many, many oz. of fiberglass but did nothing to the outside.Photos of these repairs are here -> http://batboat.blogspot.com/2008/10/batboat-rebuild-day-13-september-25.html
* the surface of the stern is severely damaged where the engine broke through. These have been fixed with the transom lamination but still has gouges that need to be filled and made smooth. Photos here ->
http://batboat.blogspot.com/2008/10/batboat-rebuild-day-14-september-27.html
* several spots where I flexed the hull with a crowbar from the inside are cracked through the gel coat but repaired from the inside of the boat with many layers of fiberglass. Photo is attached.

Most of the nicks and scratches in the gelcoat are cosmetic except ones mentioned above. The anti-crime water cruiser is water tight.

What equipment, materials and techniques do I need to fix, fill in and make the hull smooth again before I can begin to paint?

Another big problem is the hull was painted with latex-looking black paint. Some of it peels off now but most is on there good. I tried sanding a few spots with sandpaper but the paint gums it up quickly. How do I get it this off?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

What equipment, materials and techniques do I need to fix, fill in and make the hull smooth again before I can begin to paint?

Ayuh,... You can make yer own Fairing compound(filling putty), check out Oop's Peanut Butter reciepe...

You'll need a power sander or 2,+ various grits of sandpaper,...
Scuff it all up,+ sand it Smooth, then start Paintin'...

As for the Black paint,... I'd probably suffer though stripping,+ sanding it off to get a good solid base for the new paint...

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Can I use paint stripper to take off the latex paint or will that chemically hurt the gel coat and fiberglass repairs?

What type of power sander is best? I have a small palm sander here.

I have lots of wood flower, cabosil and talc to use as filler. The color of those repairs will be light and dark brown. Will it show through when I go to coat the hull with white gelcoat?

I know nothing about gelcoat or painting. Those will be my next questions. lol

 

[Bondo]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Can I use paint stripper to take off the latex paint or will that chemically hurt the gel coat and fiberglass repairs?

Ayuh,... Pretty much anything you want,... Straight Acetone won't even hurt it...

What type of power sander is best? I have a small palm sander here.

I've got air powered DAs,+ longboard sanders,... But,.. Use whatever you've got... longer helps flatten big areas...

I use 80 or 120 to knock down fills, or whatevers...
240 to rough for Primers,.. maybe Gelcoats too, donno... Don't like Gel...
Then 320 for knockin' the primer smooth for top coat...
'course, if I screw up, there's the Really fine paper for fixing the top coat...

I have lots of wood flower, cabosil and talc to use as filler. The color of those repairs will be light and dark brown. Will it show through when I go to coat the hull with white gelcoat?

Ayuh,... Whatever,... I use cabosil, glass bubbles, ground glass, chopped glass,+ thixitropic powders...
Primers, paint, or gelcoat should Easily cover any shadow coloring,...
Smooth,+ Flat is the Concern, for a Great finish... No matter the top coatin'...

Like I said,... Gelcoat, Outside shootin' it in a Mold, is Way Too Much Work...
You shoot it on Thick, multipule coats,... Then go,+ Sand 1/2 of it back Off to get it flat, polished,+ Pretty....

If you Primer,+ paint,...
Shoot the primer,+ Sand it out.... Then reshoot all the "Problems" you find while sanding it out....
Then do that Over,+ Over,+ Over,... Til your Happy with the flatness,+ smoothness of the hull...
Then I go to my local Napa to get a batch of Martin Senoir Prizim paint...
It's a 2-pt urethane paint that shoots like a Dream, covers extremely well,+ rarely needs a finish sanding,+ polishing after I shoot the top coat....
I've shot boats that sit on wagons,+ boats that are dock queens,.... Never had a Paint Problem yet....
This is a Highliner 222 I shot last spring,.. It went to a dock on the St. Lawrence a few weeks later,...
I took this picture after it was pulled,+ not cleaned in October...

Good luck on your adventure,......

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Thanks for the info.

What makes me nervous is having expensive flakes and various coat chemicles go to waste if I do it wrong. Money is scarce for me these days.

Do you think this would be a good visual aid DVD to get? "Kustom Boat Painting and Graphics DVD" http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/ItemDetail.aspx?itemno=KUS+HB-DVD5
The paint scheme will be blue with blue flake, red stripes, red and yellow flame against white and white scallops on the fin.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

What makes me nervous is having expensive flakes

For a 1st time paint job,... I'd reconsider the Flake thing....

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

It looks kind of easy, or isn't it?

 

[oops!]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

hi batty....i see bondo has you going well.

may i just say......replace what was there.....exactly...if you add flake that was not on the bat boat.....you have a recreation.....not a restoration...that boat will be worth tons of cash.......thats a barrett jackson thing darren....just make it like it was....it will be at every boat show for years.

if it had flake......you need a pro to spray it.....flake on boats is really not a good thing.

as far as fixing gouges....its all in the hull thread....but if you want. more info just ask..

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

hi batty....i see bondo has you going well.

may i just say......replace what was there.....exactly...if you add flake that was not on the bat boat.....you have a recreation.....not a restoration...that boat will be worth tons of cash.......thats a barrett jackson thing darren....just make it like it was....it will be at every boat show for years.

if it had flake......you need a pro to spray it.....flake on boats is really not a good thing.

as far as fixing gouges....its all in the hull thread....but if you want. more info just ask..

This Batboat was made in 2006 for a 40th anniversary convention for the Batman TV show.

The original had flake but nearly impossible to tell from photos, movie and TV episodes. If you guys say I'll need a pro, I'll just do it in the dark blue. No use in my messing this up. Thanks!

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Here is a good situation; this is a tri hull and the vast majority of the surface area is the bottom, unseen from anywhere one stands. It is mostly the sides and bow that people can see so I don't need every square inch of the "belly" surface to be perfect.

Ooops, I read over the thread and took notes and came up with a check list and several questions.

The hull has black latex-type paint on it and I am able to get it off with my circular sander now with old 40 grit discs I found here!

Beneath that paint is a thin layer of white stuff I'll assume is gelcoat. (It was originally a white boat with blue details). Under that is fiberglass cloth. Ooops!, on your boat you removed all the gelcoat. Do I have to do that with mine or is it fine? I really can't afford to re-gelcoat the hull. I can spray on a couple layers but outside of that the money isn't there.

After filling in the hull's old nicks, dings, scrapes and spots mistakenly sanded down to the fiberglass cloth with peanut butter, do I have to cover that with a faring compound or does the peanut butter act as the faring compound?

In the original gelcoat there are some superficial thin, dark lines. I assume it is the crasing that so many here talk about. They don't seem to affect anything. Do I grind those out?

Something else related to this the new Batboat detailings. The air scoups (the two things in front that makes the craft look like it has eyes) and fins will be made of thin exterior ply. After they are built I plan to cover them with 1.5 oz fiberglass and poly resin. After sanding smooth, what else goes on top before I can paint? They'll have to be uniform looking with the 40+ year hull.

As of this month, I am doing poorly. Maybe in April things will improve but as of now I project that due to lack of funds I will have to "hot pot" any gelcoating. I'm no longer in contact with the lady I was friends with last year so I'll have to buy the torch and air compressor she let me borrow. As you can imagine, I want to (and have to) get this boat done right but on a budget. Thank God all the expensive stuff was finished last year!!! lol!

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Bond-o,

Is that paint you use better than gelcoat? I am checking it out today. What about oxidization in water and UV rays?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Only since no one more qualified has jumped in....

It sounds to me like what you're saying is this boat was hastily painted with possibly a unsuitable latex paint. Knowing you're on a budget, if I was you I'd strip or sand off all the offending paint, fill in all the nicks and dings with Marine-tex and paint it with a brush and roller using a quality single part paint like Easypoxy. I painted my boat like that and it turned out awesome. People can't believe it's not sprayed.

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Only since no one more qualified has jumped in....

It sounds to me like what you're saying is this boat was hastily painted with possibly a unsuitable latex paint. Knowing you're on a budget, if I was you I'd strip or sand off all the offending paint, fill in all the nicks and dings with Marine-tex

Thanks for the checklist. Weather is warming up over here in MI and I am getting plans together to flip the hull. Looking at prices, I can't afford the Marine-tex and figure peanut butter will have to do.

Good news; my circular sander with 40 grit discs I found practically wipes that black paint off. Will sand down the stern as soon as the sun comes up today.

and paint it with a brush and roller using a quality single part paint like Easypoxy. I painted my boat like that and it turned out awesome. People can't believe it's not sprayed.

Easypoxy seems to come in the color close to what I need. Am ordering color chips tonight.

Three questions; This is listed as a "topside" paint. In my case will this be sufficient for the bottom? I'm planing to use this in the water perhaps 10 hours or more a year. It will be on a trailer the rest of the time.

Will this be tough enough paint to endure gravel hits while trailering the highway?

Looks like I will need a gallon of this. Once I pop the lid off the can, how long can I expect the paint inside to be good for? Does it skin up quickly?

Does Easypoxy need clear coat on top?

I have to buy an air compressor so I may as well spray it on.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Bond-o,

Is that paint you use better than gelcoat? I am checking it out today. What about oxidization in water and UV rays?

Ayuh,... The stuff I mentioned above is a 2pt.Urethane,... It only sets up, after mixed...
It's designed as a fleet paint for paintin' Truck fleets...
It'll take Sun, Sand,+ Time quite nicely...
It costs me about $100.@gallon...

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

I doubt you'll need a gallon of Easypoxy. I painted my whole boat with 2 quarts. Topsides paint just means it's not suitable for the bottom of boats that are slipped. For most trailer boats, it's fine for the bottom. Easypoxy isn't as hard as two-part paints but it does seem to be to be harder than Rustoleum. I'm very please with it and I think you will be too if you go that route. It seems to touch up very easily as well.

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Any clear coat needed for Easypoxy?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

I wouldn't think so. I used Rustoleum clear on the top of my old boat. I was not happy with how it held up.

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

Thanks, guys. I am looking into all of the products mentioned.

 

[oops!]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

hi batty,,,,


how you doin bud.?

sorry i was away for a bit......i just looked in on your blog....
may i say you really have learned a lot and are doing a respectable job.

have you flipped the hull yet? its not really that hard. but you will need a few friends. i wish i was there to help you with this boat darren. read the hull extension thread on fairing the bottom of the hull......i did a lot of work there and it is well documented including tools and types of sand paper and grits.

as far as that 60 or 80 grit you are using watch out doing the bottom of the hull.....i would use a lot lighter paper......you might end up going thru it again with the 60 grit.

ill be on a lot more from now on....just ask bud

cheers
oops

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Newbe questions on repairing exterior hull for eventual paint/gel coating

hi batty,,,,


how you doin bud.?

Hi, okay.

sorry i was away for a bit......i just looked in on your blog....
may i say you really have learned a lot and are doing a respectable job.

Thanks. When I am done with the Batboat I may try my hand at a hydro plywood boat next year like this and put fins on it. Make it look 1960s Sci-Fi. http://svensons.com/boat/?p=HydroPlanes/DingBat

have you flipped the hull yet? its not really that hard. but you will need a few friends. i wish i was there to help you with this boat darren.

May flip it this weekend if the weather is good. This afternoon Charter Cable let me have the last forklift pallet I need to make a stand for the boat.

The way I have it figured, a friend and I can carefully flip it over in 10 minutes with the help of pallet wood and LOTS of tires! lol

The weight of the boat flip will be supported by tires at the transom area and tip of the bow. Then, it will be lifted and pallet stand centered underneath.

The sides are too fragile to put the boat's full weight on so the flip has to be done right.

Studied up on the DVD offered on this site. lol http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/newpage1

read the hull extension thread on fairing the bottom of the hull......i did a lot of work there and it is well documented including tools and types of sand paper and grits.

as far as that 60 or 80 grit you are using watch out doing the bottom of the hull.....i would use a lot lighter paper......you might end up going thru it again with the 60 grit.

I took lots of notes on your thread and think I know what to do now .

YOu are right about 60 grit. In the couple of test spots it went down through to the fiberglass quick and left some of the paint imbedded in the sanding marks.

Will use paint stripper when it gets 65 degrees over here.

One question about faring compound. Money is now tight for me. I have a few light scratches, cracked gelcoat and gouges here and there. Can I get by with one quart of this stuff for the whole boat or isn't it enough?

http://www.iboats.com/Premium-Fille...91688459--**********.413828131--view_id.68603

I know I can use peanut butter as faring compound but will feel much safer going with something waterproof with the undersides.