Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

[MCNPathfinder]

Hey everyone. I'm more or less a newbie when it comes to the boating world. I've been dabbling over the past 3-4 years with 60s-70s Larson runabouts, but purchased a 23' Cobia cabin cruiser last season. Right now it's in storage (and I CANNOT wait for the season to start again), but I figured now is a good time to start saving up the money for repairs and trailering accessories. The previous owner told me it weighs right around 3800-4200 pounds with the double axle trailer. It's got a built 305 Chevy V8 in it. I love it, but trailering it is a chore and can be scary. I tow it with a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder with a 3.5 V6 (towing capacity of 5000-6000 pounds), most of the time in 2WD (except when the launch won't cooperate). The first time I towed it, I took it on the freeway like I have with my other boats, and it started swaying really badly from left to right. It scares me, so it was fine for last season to pull it on the backroads. It took twice as long to get to the launch, but I was okay with it because it was much safer. So what causes the swaying, is the boat not properly situated on the trailer then? I'm good friends with the previous owner, and he suggested that I move the boat forward on it's trailer about 4 inches. It makes sense to me because that V8 seems to hang off the back a decent amount not putting as much weight on the hitch as it should thus raising the back end of the truck. The suspension is all independent springs on my truck since it's a soccer mom car you know, and I've heard because of the springs (and unibody), the sway is amplified. I'm for sure going to be putting electric brakes on the trailer. My primary question is should a weight distributing hitch be something I should be investing in with a boat that weighs as much as mine or are they really for heavier loads? I'm not a fan of spending money (especially in this economy), but I have no problem spending money that keeps me and the people driving around me safe due to my lack of trailering experience. The last thing I want to do is kill someone because I wanted to save a few hundred bucks. The lake I frequent is about 15 miles away, and I would probably just call it good moving the boat forward and putting some brakes on it, but this summer I plan on venturing out a few more places some at least 3-5 hours away (like 300-500 one way), and I want to be as safe as possible with this thing. Do trailer axles ever need to be aligned like cars do when you get new tires or something? I just replaced the front two leaf springs on it last season, is that something I need to have checked out? Thanks for the help, I do appreciate it!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

you are on the right track.... You almost definitely need more tongue weight.. Don't guess tho, get the boat and trailer weighed and shoot for 10-15% of the total weight .... You can pretty safely assume tho that you need @400 lbs, so if you can lift it with one hand you have a problem.... You don't need a WDH unless your tow vehicle can't handle the tongue weight. I wouldn't worry about that at least until you get the tongue weight right.

 

[arks]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

OK for starters, do you have functioning brakes on the trailer? If so, make sure they're properly adjusted. If not, then add 'em. Why do you want electric brakes on a boat trailer?
Next, you should find a truck scale and weigh the trailer with boat, gear and gas aboard. Then you'll KNOW what it weighs. With that information, test the tongue weight- yep it should be between 10- 15% of the loaded trailer weight. Move the boat F-R as needed but don't let it overhang the bunks or last rollerset. Oh, and make sure the bow stop is BELOW the bow roller.....
WD hitches shouldn't be used with surge brakes but might be OK with electrics. Maybe some air shocks or bags for towing?
Yes, axles can become mis-aligned. The most obvious symptom is uneven tire wear. Have it checked if you think it's not right. Once it's correct, alignment isn't needed on a regular basis unless a suspension component is replaced or impact damage is suspected.
While you're at it, the trailer tires/rims should be balanced, too. Just to make sure.
And don't forget to service the hubs!

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

^^^^ What they said. Also make sure all your tires are aired to equal pressure an are at the recommended pressure for the load. Check the trailer and make sure it is the right size trailer for your boat. But more than likely, like said above, more tongue weight should help you. Post a picture of the trailer and boat when you can. It will help us help you. Nice boat by the way.

The boats stern can hang over the bunks or rollers and be just fine. To much, not so good, but normally a couple feet won't hurt anything, but it does depend on how the load is spread and the set up of your particular trailer. If it is hanging to far off the rear, it can cause sway issue do to more weight being applied to the rear axle instead of it being more equally distributed over both axles.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

+1 on Smokes Advice. ^^^

... It makes sense to me because that V8 seems to hang off the back a decent amount not putting as much weight on the hitch as it should thus raising the back end of the truck. ...

I will assume that the trailer does not actually LIFT the Pathfinder rear end, or the boat would flop over backwards when you unhitched it.
The boats transom should not be hanging over the end of the trailer.
There is a lot of weight bouncing around back there that need to be supported, not just on the road, but also sitting still.

Find out what it actually weighs.
Don't guess! Get it weighed.
Visit a Truck Stop, or even one of the garden supply centers that sell in Bulk.
Most will be free or 5-10 bucks. Cheap insurance!

And even if you can lift the tongue with two hands, you have a problem.
Or ? you are a better man than I am!

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

+1 on Smokes Advice. ^^^




I will assume that the trailer does not actually LIFT the Pathfinder rear end, or the boat would flop over backwards when you unhitched it.
The boats transom should not be hanging over the end of the trailer.
There is a lot of weight bouncing around back there that need to be supported, not just on the road, but also sitting still.

Find out what it actually weighs.
Don't guess! Get it weighed.
Visit a Truck Stop, or even one of the garden supply centers that sell in Bulk.
Most will be free or 5-10 bucks. Cheap insurance!

And even if you can lift the tongue with two hands, you have a problem.
Or … you are a better man than I am!

Many boats transoms hang over the rear of the trailer. Especially on roller trailers. Roller trailers vary rarely come to the very end of the boat. The weight is distributed wide on a proper trailer set-up. The transom is supported even if the trailer bunks or rollers don't extend all the way to the stern. The transom is part of a support system in boats, not the only support.Transoms are not the only thing in a boat that supports the weight of the motor, in an I/O boat, the stringers are supporting the motor. The weight is actually centered a couple feet in from the transom. The Trailer set-up and how it disperses the weight is most important.

As sure as I am about trailer bunks or rollers not having to come all the way to the stern is almost as sure as I am that this will be debated for the next thousand years.

Hope this isn't a derail, just want the op to have all the info. Show some pics, it all depends on your set-up.

 

[Alan_Scott]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

After you get the tongue weight issue sorted out, check to see if the trailer sits level. I once helped a friend out by pulling his utility trailer (which weighed all of about 600 pounds) home after he had a breakdown and I was getting sway with the nose only about 4" too high.

Also when pulling anything that heavy, I grease the ball. A dry ball won't pivot as smoothly and can compound the sway. The naysayers will say it's not necessary or that it's too messy but they've probably never towed with a Goldwing

Make sure all of the tires on both units have the proper air pressure. Sidewall flex can act like a rubber band and increase the sway.

Don't try to steer out of a sway, hold your vehicle as steady as possible. You will most likely time it wrong and make it much worse.

Don't slam on the brakes because that can send you into a jack knife. If you have a trailer brake controller, a light application of trailer brakes will help straighten things out. BUT, don't panic and lock up the trailer brakes because then your still facing a possible jack knife situation.

Your going to get into situations where the trailer sways to one side or the other, be it a gust of wind or a rut in the road. What you want to do is eliminate anything that will allow the trailer to go into a rhythmic oscillation.

 

[BRICH1260]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

In addition to what everyone else has said regarding the trailer corrections, I think your tow vehicle may be a little light for that much weight. The rear suspension, which has coils, are not good putting that much weight on them. I think you need a half ton truck minimum. I bet your boat weighs more than what you friend told you( comparing it to mine).

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

Hey thanks everyone for the help! I really appreciate it! From what I'm gathering, I shouldn't need a weight distributing hitch just yet then. I will attempt to move the boat forward. I guess I probably gave the wrong idea as to what the boat was doing when I said hanging off the trailer. It's still within the rear rollers, nothing is actually hanging off the back. I think what I'll do is change the rollers to bunks as well. The trailer was originally setup for hydraulic brakes, but all of that stuff was torn off or ruined given the age of the trailer (late 70s I think). I decided electric because I don't know anything about trailer brakes, and they seemed pretty easy to install I guess. Is this a bad idea? I'd rather do it right than do it twice. It sounds like I should also load it and weigh it too. I think I can have up to 600 pounds tongue weight on my hitch.
I will attempt to attach a picture. When it's in my driveway I usually put a jack stand under the back part of the trailer so when I get on the swim dock it doesn't bring the front end off the ground. "UncleWillie" I think that's probably what you were talking about?

I can't find the one of it hooked to my truck. I will post it later when I find it. Thanks again everyone!

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

Yeah unless your a real big guy(like 500 or 600 lbs) you should have no reason to brace the back of the trailer to get in the boat when not hooked to the tow vehicle, thats a red flag that your tongue weight is waaaaay to lite!!

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

You're getting very good information here.

I agree that you may not have sufficient tongue weight on your hitch. My local city dump will weigh me for free. Truck scales at the truck stops can also weigh you. You may just need to adjust your winch forward to stabilize your load.

There's nothing more frightening than looking in your rear view mirror and seeing a 5000 pound load swinging back and forth--I learned the hard way.

There's no substitute for a proper tow vehicle. Your truck would be okay for short hauls--maybe up to 50 miles. You just don't have the horsepower or long wheel base that gives V-8 half ton truck's towing stability. (My 3/4 ton diesel crew cab is good up to 12,000 pounds.)

ChampionTrailers.com has a great FAQ section on universal trailer questions. Surge brakes work better and are less a hassle from 3000-6000 lbs on a boat. From 6000 lbs. up, electric brakes work better, but their lifespan is short if used in salt water.

Under no condition should anyone ever use a weight distributing hitch on any boat. They're for bumper hitch travel trailers only, and are commonly used with a friction style sway control. I use them with my travel trailer.

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

You're getting very good information here.
There's nothing more frightening than looking in your rear view mirror and seeing a 5000 pound load swinging back and forth--I learned the hard way.

That's kind of what I was thinking. There's been times where I get very scared pulling this thing because it starts wiggling, and I can't get it to stop. I think this is part of the reason the boat got a new trailer. The old one ended up jack-knifing and smashing into the side of the van it was being pulled by. I guess I could get a new truck, but I've had this car 2 years now, and have had 3 cars since I turned 16. I hate the hassle of buying new cars. Just out of curiosity, why is my truck only good for the short hauls, like you had said under 50 miles? Isn't stability really independent of distance? I mean a truck is really only good for pulling versus not good for pulling right? Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean any offense, I'm here to learn. Thanks for the help!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

nothing in the world wrong with electric brakes on that rig... Do yourself a HUGE favor tho, get one of the better brake controllers with a pendulum in it that senses braking and applies proportional brakes to the trailer.... you can lightly brake for a long distance or slam on the brakes in an emergency and the trailer brakes just work... exactly as you would want them to.

Adjust the boat forward until it would just about kill two stout guys picking it up and go get it weighed.... If you weigh at a truck stop drop the trailer (as long as there isn't a line of trucks waiting to weigh) so that the trailer tires are on one pad, and the trailer jack is on another and pull your vehicle ahead so that all of its wheels are on a third pad and push the call button. They'll ask "first weigh or re-weigh?" You answer "first weigh" then they'll ask for a truck number and you say "1" or whatever you can remember when you ask for your ticket inside. fore the rest of their questions just answer "none" and they'll say "ok, come inside" hook back up, park in the lot and go to the truck fuel desk (expect to pay $5-$10)......

then when you read the ticket "trailer" will be your trailer weight minus tongue weight, "drives" will be tongue weight, and "steer" will be the weight of your tow vehicle.

After you get the weight ticket do some figuring.... 10%-15% of whatever your total trailer weight is ("trailer" plus "drives") will be what you want for tongue weight. If you need more weight, get out your tools and make whatever adjustments and head back to the scale... This time stay hitched and park with the trailer tires on one pad and the vehicle on one or two other pads say "re-weigh" and give them your truck number. It'll only cost ya a dollar the second time (same day)

You now know your vehicle weight from before (steer on first ticket) so now you simply need to see how much more the vehicle weighs now and subtract.

If you parked the vehicle on two pads this time you know weights on both front and rear axles so they get added together this time for vehicle plus tongue weight.

I hope this all makes sense to ya.... It really isn't as complicated as it may sound :facepalm:

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

BTW as for your question you are correct.... either it's good or it isn't good

BUT:

What they are saying is that they feel that your vehicle is marginal for that boat and that while it may work you should avoid long tows until getting a vehicle that is better..... Picture that you can carry a kid on your back but the faster and further you must do it and the greater the chance that you'll trip and hit the ground..... If it's a FAT kid you might avoid going very far until you get your 6'6" 275lb cornfed friend named bubba to take over.

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

BTW as for your question you are correct.... either it's good or it isn't good

BUT:

What they are saying is that they feel that your vehicle is marginal for that boat and that while it may work you should avoid long tows until getting a vehicle that is better..... Picture that you can carry a kid on your back but the faster and further you must do it and the greater the chance that you'll trip and hit the ground..... If it's a FAT kid you might avoid going very far until you get your 6'6" 275lb cornfed friend named bubba to take over.

Haha, awesome! Thanks! That makes sense. Thanks for the writeup as well, I'll make sure to print that out and bring it with me when it's time to weigh it. What do you guys pull with? I've been doing research on new cars, and I just haven't found anything that gets the MPG with the towing capacity that my Pathfinder has. I'd be willing to scope out different options, it would have to be in the 2001-2005 range probably, I'm just a poor college student (I know I picked the wrong hobby, boating is expensive! LOL!). What's in that range that gets like 16 city/23 highway, but still a SUV? I know the Tahoe gets actually slightly better than that I think, but I've heard they have transmission issues.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

Lets hold off truck shopping till you get it weighed and try towing it with things set up correctly.... There are things that can be done to improve a tow rig IF you need to as well.... one step at a time young grasshopper

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

Haha! Fair enough, fair enough. My boat season here in MN doesn't start until May if I'm lucky. It actually snowed a decent amount the 1st 2 weeks of May last year, although this year seems not so bad. My plan is to go retrieve the boat from storage the first weekend of May and then bring it straight to the shop for the bellows before it gets busy, and then get and install the brakes, then weight it and such. So I'm obviously planning pretty far ahead.

 

[Mike Zee]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

Haha! Fair enough, fair enough. My boat season here in MN doesn't start until May if I'm lucky. It actually snowed a decent amount the 1st 2 weeks of May last year, although this year seems not so bad. My plan is to go retrieve the boat from storage the first weekend of May and then bring it straight to the shop for the bellows before it gets busy, and then get and install the brakes, then weight it and such. So I'm obviously planning pretty far ahead.

By the first weekend in May around here, your already a little late. Call your shop ask when they get busy.

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

Haha, I know, although PA is a little warmer than MN most of the time. Who knows with this weird weather we've been having though. Maybe I'll get to get it out earlier this year? I checked with my shop when I had it winterized and they said beginning of May wasn't so busy, and even the first part of June wasn't so bad, but towards the end of June it would probably be mid-July before I got it back. You've got a good point though, I should probably check in with them maybe early April, just to be on the safe side. Last year we still had like a foot of solid snow on the ground through April! This year right now, we're almost completely to the grass!

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Newbie to boat trailering... I need some help...

By the first weekend in May around here, your already a little late. Call your shop ask when they get busy.

You didn't catch that in the Ohio did you? ( Your Avatar ))