No comments on Libby?

rodbolt

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Re: No comments on Libby?

12ftr. who leaked what to which media? by the time line of phone calls seems either Rove called cooper first or libby called miller first but cooper wrote it and novak reported it. why is that anti-american? Rove and Libby were out to smoke a critic. Valeri was treated as collateral damage. but whats absolutly hilarious is the critic they sought to damage and discredit was entirely correct along with German and israli and white house intel. seems the only few that were wrong are now involved in legal problems.<br /> seems if some says the emporer has no clothes they get zapped.<br /> you should really read a few of the above links. I tend to disregard most from partisan sites and try to stick with ones that just show facts or the facts as the documents provided,not just reported, state. why would Bush or Cheney need intel on a mid level covert operative that has a sole connection to the critic they were attempting to discredit ?<br /> that is one of the spots Rove and Libby are in. everyone knows a mid level beurocrat cant autherize travel vouchers and such and they all had the power to pick up the phone and call the travel supervisor and ask, Who autherized wilsons trip/. no need to involve anyone else. none what so ever.<br /> other than 2 or more persons employed by the govt attempted to make life difficult. that is covered under a federal code in the above mentioned links. only it gives you the expanded version of what is a federal conspiracy in that case as well.<br /> it does make for some good reading, much better than novak or newsweek.<br /> and just like watergate or clintongate if the parties involved had not INTENTIONALY lied and obstructed justice and tampered with evidence they would have waled away happy. nixons only 2 crimes were attempting to cover something up that he had really nothing to do with and getting caught doing it by lying.<br /> had slick willie just said yep got me a snooker in the oval office, next question please, it would have ended there. but by lying and all knew it, they made a life of proving the lie. that is what was shameful, not the dogged rooting of a liar but the fact the liar was in the highest office. <br /> myself I think clinton should have got 10 years or so in the big house. we have to hold any elected or appointed people on the public dole to standards higher than the average Joe.
 

12Footer

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Originally posted by David L. Moore:<br /> It's a political witch-hunt. It's all partisan politics and mudslinging.<br /><br />Do I sound like a pathetic Redumblican yet?
<br />Yes.Yes you do.<br />
Originally posted by David L. Moore:<br />As a mostly-intelligent American who can think for himself, I see a very profound similiarity between this "witch-hunt" of secret information being made public and the ruthless investigation that caused the last president to lie. Either way, the person being investigated lied, plain and simple. One caused us to inspect the oval office for certain stains in the carpet, the other caused us to fear for the security and safety of our spies. Which one seems worse? When Clinton lied, no one could have died.<br />As I remarked to my wife last night, Clinton had his scandals, seems like two, Whitewater, and Lewinsky. I'm sure there were more, and I'm sure you all will make me acutely aware of them. But baby bush seems to have never ending bad news. Seems like baby bush is either doing a really poor job of being held to a higher standard (of job performance), or the party in power really is not the redumblican party. <br /><br />So get over it. Obviously Libby has some appearance of impropriety and some evidence against him of wrong-doing or else the Grand Jury couldn't have indicted him. <br /><br />Oh, yeah that's right it's a left-wing conspiracy to seat an entirely Democratic Grand Jury in order to guarantee an indictment.
I guess you don't really realise it, but you are just adding gas to the fire here. Mudslinging is best-defined as the art of throwing proverbial mud against the proverbial wall to see what sticks. Both sides (the "redumlicans" and the socialists alike) are not strangers to this practice.<br />The first to try to compare the treatment of their god, Bill Clinton to the treatment of and the Libby inquisition, both here on the forum, and by the talking heads i personally heard. They were not from "pathetic Redumlicans", but from such stalwart figures as Chris Mathews. But they were selective in their comarisons, choosing to leave-out details,just as they left-out entire reports on a more critical (to the left anyhow) oil for food scandal as it was perpetrated by so-called "Americans".<br />I agree with Limbaugh that Bill Clinton should have been indicted, and not over an e-mail, either, like Scooter Libby has been but rather for preparing a false affidavit, having his lawyer introduce it into evidence, testifying to its truthfulness and so forth. He did all of that obstructing justice, multiple acts of perjury, conspiracy and contempt. These were premeditated. They were central to the sex harassment case and Clinton never disputed them, even though he could have in a hearing which he refused to. In this case the underlying issue was whether Plame was covert, whether she was outed, thereby endangering her and national security. This Libby indictment doesn't even deal with what this special counsel's investigation was about. Robert Ray concluded Hillary Clinton lied repeatedly about her role in the travel office firings, not the Rose Law Firm billing records, but he decided not to charge, even though he concluded she lied under oath.<br /><br /> Now, Hillary is said to be a terrific senator. She's going to run for her party's presidential nomination, all is well. Now, is something wrong with this picture or what? And she did conceal those Rose Law Firm billing records for two years in the private residence of the White House and didn't know how they got there. <br />Libby didn't do any of this. And yet, this dual-standard of justice ,as transparent as it is, is denied to exist?<br /><br />The "left wing conspiracy" you made light of has been a key factor since "Bush stole the election", and has been relentless since. Keep throwing your mud, as it tends to shed the mask of theory from that which is fact. And note that Sheehan, Dan Rather/Mary Mapes, John F Kerry, Al Gore, Al Franken, Al Jazeerah, Al Sharpton and many others who sought to bring down Bush (and make no mistake, that is what this current witch hunt has been for the past two years), have been lucky if they escaped without getting charged with defamation or obstruction of justice, and have merely become laughing fodder to some of us on the right.<br />This derails somewhat, but there is a bigger picture that some would like to sweep-under the rug. But the old plays (like watergate), do not werk when the media is not 100% behind your efforts. That, and people are not that stupid to begin with, and some can even anticipate their next move way before it airs on the 6:30news.<br />Opinions are like--- well, opinions...We will ALL see what happens to the principles.
 

agitator

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Some spy. If the CIA was paying an ambassadors wife to be a spy, they were wasting their money.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: No comments on Libby?

I always hate when some "quotes" Rush Limbaugh! and his drivel.... He is truly a steaming pile o' that....He sickens me almost as Ted Kennedy, a steaming pile as well...Maybe when you add two piles o' that you just might be able to construct something... How tall would that be?. Then again you cannot polish a turd..Maybe the pile will grow enough to furnish an alternative fuel source...Then we might get somewhere.....JK ;)
 

rodbolt

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Re: No comments on Libby?

an ambassodors wife is a perfect cover. <br /> she only married wilson in 98, she had been a covert NOC for many years before that. and thats about the time wilson retired in 98, sorry to shoot your theory down.<br /> and it does not matter if a technicality was made in the legal isue of the outing of plame and the CIA front company. its the equivalent of libby or rove or whoever, brodcasting the location of an in country seal team or fwd deployed unit.<br /> just aint no way round that point. <br />no matter how ya spin it.<br /> that fact is just fact.<br /> no one has said if she had been active overseas since 98. really does not matter except its a legal technicality. fact is someone in the administrations highest point blew the cover on not only Plame but numerous other agents and contacts and a complete cover company. I cant imagine the pressure of performing espionage in a foriegn country without a black passport. she only had the same blue one I have. do you know what the penalty for espionage in most countries is ??<br /> minimum is usually life in prison, max is execution. usually when the US catches a NOC we quietly try them,interrogate them for any intel we can gain and quietly do a prisoner exchange to recover our NOC's. those that survive. look at the CIA wall of Honor and look for anonomous stars and stars in general.<br /> but you will have to agree with two points. one is the leak came from a very high placed admin official, and two at a minimum someone displayed incredibly bad judgement at a time of national crisis. if I owned backpeddle choo choo train lines and a porter showed up drunk I may give a second chance, if the engineer showed up drunk( a display of poor judgement) I would fire him on the spot and have security escort him off the premisis. airlines do it occasionally.<br /> lower level perssonell that are not in a position to wreck a train may be allowed a bit of discretion. High level personell that can wreck the train are not allowed the same level of discretion.<br /> I often wondered if My late father was not involved with some of it. in the late 70's through the early ninties he worked as an analyst and a civil engineer all through the middle east contracting his services. in the early ninties he suddenly showed back up in the states and never left again. in fact the one thing that we cannot find in all his documents is his passport. and this man was anal with notes and details. we also found vast gaps of time in his notes. its to late to ask but maybe thats why he occasionally knew what was going to happen.
 

rodbolt

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Re: No comments on Libby?

as far as rush limbaugh I put as much credence to what he says as I do mike cash, the tv 10 weatherman, he is a master backpeddler. all the years of screaming about dopers,hopheads and horrors, meth addicts, as well as percription addicts. what did he do hen he was busted???<br /><br /> man I seen crawdads in LA that could not back up that fast.<br /> but as a good follower of the faith, thats what he did.<br /> he would still be an addict if he had not got busted. wish he would have done a few years on the mando time.<br /> only thing Rush is good for is laughter while driving when I am tired of john boy and billy.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Can we get enough methane gas as an alternative from this pile 'o that to fuel this nation on a long term basis?....Probably not...but ...I'll keep lookin'...And Rush not only has no clothes, he is a self serving hypocrite...Hooked on pain killers by left-wing fundimentalisis, I'd wager....BEWARE of drival spouted by this steaming pile o'man!...JK
 

12Footer

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Originally posted by J.kopec:<br /> I always hate when some "quotes" Rush Limbaugh! and his drivel.... He is truly a steaming pile o' that....He sickens me almost as Ted Kennedy, a steaming pile as well...Maybe when you add two piles o' that you just might be able to construct something... How tall would that be?. Then again you cannot polish a turd..Maybe the pile will grow enough to furnish an alternative fuel source...Then we might get somewhere.....JK ;)
I don't think that had the desired effect. Sorry to dissapoint if i did.<br /><br /><br />But Rodbolt, she prooved to be a lousey spy. As the "Able Danger" investigation has already uncovered. She was given (literally handed) info and sat on it. In addition, things she could've done to incorporate sources she already had in the role of ambassador, she failed to do. I think i could do a better job, and that's not bragging, believe me. This could also be inaccurate, or proove-out to be even criminal ---either way, the indictments are yet to be handed-up yet in the case of her hand in "able danger". So I'll just reiterate, i'll judge guilty/innocent with Libby's case at the same time the court does...Samey-same with V.Plame.<br />In the meantime, I'll form my opinion on what i believe to be truthful news reports (and we all know how that sometimes turns-out)...It aint over till the fat lady sings.
 

POINTER94

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Strange how most of the name calling of ideologies is coming from only one side. How many million of dollars did Leahy cost this country when he leaked information about a secret aircraft project? How about the actual undercover agent that Kerry outed who was undercover at the time Kerry wanted his way with Bolton. The moral high ground belongs to nobody. Why would someone who is worried about his wife take his politics to the editorial page of the New York Times (the national paper of record) and try to use his non-report to attack the sitting administration. Not the act of someone with an undercover agent for a wife. Unless he is a total moron. Then put his and his undercover wife's face on the cover of Vanity Fair. Please, lets not be stupid.<br /><br />His actions are inconsistant with someone who was concerned with the safety of his family or country.
 

12Footer

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Pointer, he wasted a great many tax dollars, yes. But i'm more concerned with the lives it has cost, not that it would be possible to tally.
 

jimonica

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Re: No comments on Libby?

The CIA agent allegedly outed by John Kerry is Fulton Armstrong. If anyone is really interested in the truth, google or run a search using his name. I did and found his name had been mentioned in at least 4 different articles prior to Republican Richard Luger and John Kerry mentioning his name during the Bolton hearings.<br />Yes, Republican Richard Luger actually mentioned Fulton Armstrong's name before John Kerry, But some on this board only seem to be outraged by the fact the a Democrat mentioned his name.<br /><br />Apparently Patrick Leahy is quite a sieve and he deserves to have the book thrown at him. But while we are doing so lets also make sure we go after Richard Shelby for leaking the fact that we were tapping Osoma bin Laden's satellite phone. Bin Laden immediately stopped using the phone and denied us the opportunity to find and kill him.<br /><br />I distinctly remember Ken Starr so matter-of-factly acting like his hands were tied and he had to prosecute Bill Clinton for perjury. No matter how small and inconsequencial perjury is perjury and he needed to be prosecuted. <br /><br />Well you live by the sword you die by the sword. Now it's time for a republican to die by the sword.
 

KaGee

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Let's assume the worst case scenerio. Libby is convicted for lying to investigators, investigating a non-crime. The prosecutor wants his head. <br /><br />Am I the only one who finds 30 years in prison way out of line here? What kind of justice is that?<br /><br />Bill Clinton lied... he's walking the streets as if nothing happened.
 

north40

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Re: No comments on Libby?

KaGee,<br />Clinton lied about gettin a BJ. "Scooter" Chaney, and Rove endangered our security. Suck up to the "Texas Mofia" if you wish but don't tell me how patriotic you are
 

rodbolt

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Re: No comments on Libby?

pointer<br /> I agree 100% that the moral high ground belongs to either side. both sides have dirty hands and sometimes,I think, hidden agendas.<br /> problem is in todays modern electronic communications its easier to have someone that is disgruntled with something blow the whistle. once its blown one side or the other and sometimes both engage in some very bad behavoir.<br /> I still dont think Bush knowingly lied about much of anything. I do think he relied to much on poor advice and intel.<br /> 30 years is nothing if it is proven but he will never ever get it. he may get a presidential pardon. as will most the rest involved if anything ever comes of the investigation.<br /> as far as listing her employer and her maiden name its common for married people to use their maiden names for sometime after marriage, takes a bit to do the name change thing. also after a second marriage its very common. and if she had listed a different employer on the form and was overseas and someone checked the public records the inconsistancie would stick out like a beacon. the US is not the only country that data mines and has some sophisticated intel methods and uses full time data analysts. we are also not the only country with leaks in our intel.
 

KaGee

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Originally posted by north40:<br /> KaGee,<br />Clinton lied about gettin a BJ. "Scooter" Chaney, and Rove endangered our security. Suck up to the "Texas Mofia" if you wish but don't tell me how patriotic you are
Better take another look at the indictments there North. I think you are getting your facts mixed up with politcal fiction.
 

POINTER94

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Re: No comments on Libby?

jmonica,<br /><br />I provided the name of Fulton Armstrong, and the link to the entire story including the Lugar outing above. No need to google anything. The problem is, Lugar's remark can be believed to be a mistake, Kerry was subsequently warned by the CIA NOT to use his name in interrogating Bolton. In his defense Bolton, being smarter, did his best to cover up responding to Kerry's outing of Armstrong, by refering to him as Mr. Smith. Country comes second to politics with some, and Kerry's was not a slip of the tongue, it was intensional. Besides what kind of an idiot would repeat the name of an agent after being warned and witnessed the stupidity of someone else making that mistake. Very Presidential. Reminds me of a question about a bridge.<br /><br />Rodbolt,<br /><br />
I agree 100% that the moral high ground belongs to either side. both sides have dirty hands and sometimes,I think, hidden agendas.<br />
I fear that dirty hands is more often than not involved and hidden agendas the norm. :mad:
 

rolmops

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Can somebody please tell me why they wish to whitewash a possible crime by a republican by dragging Clinton or Kerry out of the dregs of history.Do you really think anybody is stupid enough to be led away from this specific misdeed? Anyway why are you so eager to discuss Clinton while the subject is Libby?
 

Link

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Originally posted by pjc:<br /> PW2 trolled you all.........
Yea but you got to give him credit.. he is good at it ;)
 

Elmer Fudge

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Re: No comments on Libby?

Scooter Libby is a moron who should not have had the position which he held.<br />What sensible man hands over all of his notes to the grand jury and proceeded to contradict his very own writings under questioning?<br /><br />I would think at this stage his lawyers may possibly be contemplating a temporary insanity plea.
 
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