no fuel to 2 cyinders?

[rainman01]

Hello,
I have a 1969 Sea Ray SRV210. Cracked the block on original motor,(160hp GM inline 6). Replaced it with a Re-Built 1983 165hp GM inline 6. Complete tune-up when installed. Entire replacement done here at home. Plugs gapped at .35. Points at .19. Timed at 6 BTD. (all specs taken from manufactures sticker on engine). All checked and re-checked while trying to ID rough idle and VERY poor running performance. Last nite discovered that cylinders 1& 2 are not firing. Pull wires while idling and no change in motor performance. Even pulled plugs while running and though very loud, they show excellent spark and did not affect the running of the engine. Popping other wires makes noticeable difference. Interestingly, both plugs are dry. They do not appear to be getting any fuel. I have been toying with motors for nearly 40 years, but this has me pretty well baffled. Any suggestions?

 

[alldodge]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Who rebuilt the motor? Asking because another guy here just bought a rebuilt engine and only last 10 hours. End result is he was scammed by a rebuilder. Suggest checking the compression on those 2 cylinders.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

are the valves for those cylinders operating nornally

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Compression test is well within norms. Motor re-built by by person/shop well known to me.

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

I did not visually inspect the valves assuming the compression test would tell me if they were hanging up. Simple to pull the valve cover and visually inspect them though. I will do this now. Am I correct in assuming that valves must be damaged if they are not opening on the intake stroke?

 

[alldodge]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

I did not visually inspect the valves assuming the compression test would tell me if they were hanging up. Simple to pull the valve cover and visually inspect them though. I will do this now. Am I correct in assuming that valves must be damaged if they are not opening on the intake stroke?

If the valves were bent or hanging open the compression would be bad. If valves were stuck closed you would have bad compression. This is one wierd problem, you have air, good compression, good spark. carb is sending fuel to the other cylinders but not those two. You have an open intake, fuel and air flow to the path of least resistance and there should be no obstructions, just doesn't add up.

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Hello again,
Pulled valve cover, all looks good. No obvious bends in rods & rockers travelling back and forth just fine and valves APPEAR to be traveling just fine. BUT... a second compression test shows 0 pressure on either cylinder. Other 4 between 90 - 95. I checked each cylinder 3 times just now. Roger checked last nite and said all was fine. We were 4 to 5 beers into it at that point, did something wrong I guess. Maybe not release pressure from gauge? Anyhow, there is no pressure on these two. A hung valve on each? Can they be freed without pulling the head? The motor sat in garage over the winter before it was put in. Could this be what caused them to hang?
Sorry for the original mis-info.
Dennis.

 

[alldodge]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Hello again,
Pulled valve cover, all looks good. No obvious bends in rods & rockers travelling back and forth just fine and valves APPEAR to be traveling just fine. BUT... a second compression test shows 0 pressure on either cylinder. Other 4 between 90 - 95. I checked each cylinder 3 times just now. Roger checked last nite and said all was fine. We were 4 to 5 beers into it at that point, did something wrong I guess. Maybe not release pressure from gauge? Anyhow, there is no pressure on these two. A hung valve on each? Can they be freed without pulling the head? The motor sat in garage over the winter before it was put in. Could this be what caused them to hang?
Sorry for the original mis-info.
Dennis.

You might just need to readjust the valves. I was unable to find a 1983 inline 6 in my listings I use, are these hydraulic or solid lifters.

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

The motor originally came from a 1983 23ft Viking deck boat. List as a 3.7 I believe. Mercruiser/GM inline 6. 165hp. Lifters are solid. I thank you for pointing me in the right direction and await any help you may be able to offer.
Thank you,
Dennis.

 

[alldodge]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

I'm pretty sure you have hydraulic lifters, and if that is true.

To do this one hand is on a ratchet with socket on rocker arm nut. The other hand is hold the push rod with your fingers. All valves are adjusted fully closed.

Back off the adjusting nut until lash is felt at the pushrod (being able to rotate the push rod in your fingers), then turn the nut in to remove all lash. When lash has been removed, the pushrod will not rotate. Turn the nut in an additional 3/4 turn to center the lifter plunger.

Edit we crossed post: Look at the top of the lifter with the push rod out and if you see something this, they are hydraulic

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...gLUunDOufqyQHSvYDIBA&ved=0CDsQ9QEwBA&dur=1260

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

I am going to assume you are right about them being hydraulic and not solid. An uncovered head is not my normal field of play, so I really do not know what I am looking at. By saying the valve is closed, my assumption is that the push-rod will be down, the valve side of the rocker up and the spring fully extended. I will await your answer before I go break something. I appreciate the exact directions you provided. It will make things much easier.

 

[alldodge]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

I am going to assume you are right about them being hydraulic and not solid. An uncovered head is not my normal field of play, so I really do not know what I am looking at. By saying the valve is closed, my assumption is that the puss-rod will be down, the valve side of the rocker up and the spring fully extended. I will await your answer before I go break something. I appreciate the exact directions you provided. It will make things much easier.

Correct -- Turn the engine in direction of rotation until you see No. 1 intake valve open then closes and spring is relaxed. At this point you can adjust the intake and exhaust as mentioned above. Once done, rotate crank again til next intake valve does the same thing and do it. Do this until all valves are adjusted, using a grease pincle to mark the ones you did to keep track. There is a more methodical way of doing this but this method will get you there.

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Thank you,
It will more than likely be tomorrow before I get a chance to do it and get back to you, but get back to you I will.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

If you have 0 compression between two adjacent cylinders, look for a blown head gasket between the two cylinders.

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Terry, Is there a way to check the head gasket? There is no fuel/water in the oil. Clean, golden and pretty it is. I have been a "shade tree" mechanic for 40+ years, (by no means a pro), so I only know to look for visual signs. I am open to any suggestions.
And Mr. ALLDODGE, went in and adjusted lifters on cylinders 1 & 2. Seems the only effect was to amplify the lash clatter from the other lifters. Still no compression on either cylinder, although I suspect they are firing from time to time as she smooth's out for a brief period every now and then, but with no regularity. An odd thing, yesterday I was able to set the timing. Today I can not bring the idle down low enough to verify it is still correct. At least not without the motor dying.
I am going to end up taking this apart, aren't I?
My very next question is this.... will the head from my old motor transfer to this one. It ran great, just dumped a ton of water from the cracked block. I am beginning to think I should have left that motor in and just added another bilge pump or 2 to deal with the water.
The old motor is a 1969 GM 1600 inline 6 cylinder, 160hp. Block is stamped 1967. New one is from a 1983 Viking, also a in-line 6 cylinder, no stamp on block, but a 165hp.
I cant thank you folks enough for your input and help.
Any help / suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Dennis.

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Crap, just saw this. pulling the push rod allows me no view of the lifter. I am done for the nite and will take a light after it tomorrow and see if I can see down in there.

 

[alldodge]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Good morning, I didn't think it was a head gasket because it was my understanding this is a rebuilt motor. If this isn't the case please advise. With hydraulic lifters they need to pump up with running the engine. Sounded like they were totaly compressed from previous adjustment and may have an issue pumping back up.

If the head gasket is blown then the head has to come off and checked for flatness. The older head should work if it is in good shape.

 

[achris]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Crap, just saw this. pulling the push rod allows me no view of the lifter. I am done for the nite and will take a light after it tomorrow and see if I can see down in there.

If you want to see the lifter, remove the lifter covers on the starboard side of the engine. If it's #1 and #2 lifters you want to see, remove the forw'd side cover....

Chris.....

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Wondered what those side plates were for. I have much to learn.....

 

[rainman01]

Re: no fuel to 2 cyinders?

Motor is a re-build. Last fall. Motor sat in garage over winter, installed early July. 1st test run, ran well. Put her back on the trailer, had the hull, (waterlines, etc..) painted. Put her back in and while running to my dock she started bucking a bit. She's been tied to the dock for close to a month now and seems to be getting progressively worse. The re-build was a short block only. I did not have the top end redone, though they did re-install the head. And I believe you are right about the lifters. I adjusted and re-adjusted the lifters on those 2 cylinders a number of times before the lash did not re-appear. With the motor running those lifters are now silent, though the others obviously need adjustment also.
I buttoned it back up last nite and started her and ran it for about a half an hour. Checked the compression and still 0 on 1 & 2. The other 4 are all now over 100, I am assuming because of the lifter adjustments. They were 90-95.
Think I'll go grab a cup of coffee and a newspaper in town and come back and start again. I love the old girl and am not going to give up.