No Spark

[Karl Albin]

Ahoy,
Got no spark on a 1977 6 hp.
Pulled the flywheel and need to know how to test the electronic ignition.
Have a good Multimeter and been factory trained (up to 84) on Ford ignition systems (old mechanic = makes me dangerous).

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: No Spark

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=299680

http://www.boatpartstore.com/page29.asp

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

Thanks Tashasdaddy,
I checked Ohms reading for the Coil and it is 510 Ohms.
The reading for the "Pick up" triggering magnet is 40 Ohms.
The black yellow wire is not grounded
Karl Albin

 

[mikesea]

Re: No Spark

heck you kill circut,

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

Hi,
As I understand it the "Kill Circuit" is the Black wire with Yellow stripe.
On my 1977 6R77, the Black/Yellow wire starts at the "Ignition Module" and runs in a harness to a "Multiconnector" close to the coils. There are the "Triggering" wires for the coils in that same harness. The Triggering wires pass through the Multiconnector to the coils. The Black/Yellow wire stops at the Multiconnector.
I checked the Ohms reading for the Black/Yellow wire and it is 790 Ohms to ground.
Since it is part of the Ignition Module is that a normal reading?

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

Anyone know how to test the Ignition Module?

 

[Jleibold]

Re: No Spark

Disconnect the black/yellow wire and try to run it. Just remember that if it starts, turning the key off will not stop the motor and you will need to ground the black/yellow wire to shut it off. This will eliminate the kill switch circuit.

edit: Disconnect the wire on the engine side if you can, just incase it's grounded somewhere other than the ignition switch. Mine was grounded on the boat side as well as the engine side, and I could not diagnose where it was grounded. So, I just rewired the kill switch circuit.

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

I'm pretty sure problem is not in the kill circuit. The motor is a 1977 hand crank, no (kill button) "6R77".
The Black/yellow wire comes out of the Ignition module runs in the harness that carries the "trigger" wires to the coils and terminates in the multiconnector under the coils. The Bk/Yelo wire is not connected to anything and has an Ohms reading of 790 Ohms to ground.
Still looking for a way to test the Ignition Module.

 

[Jleibold]

Re: No Spark

Earlier in the post you said the blk/yellow wire wasn't grounded. Now you're saying it is.

You also state that the blk/yellow wire isn't connected to anything, but it's grounded. If it's not connected to anything (which I doubt) and it's grounded, wouldn't that tell you that you have some shorted wires somewhere?

Just because it's a crank motor, I would still expect a kill circuit. How do you stop the motor when it's running?

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

The Ignition Module is grounded. The Bk/Yello wire comes out of the ignition module feeds through a harness along with the trigger wires to a multi connector. The trigger wires go to the top and botom Ignition coils, the Bk/yello wire stops in the multi connector. The Ohms reading I get between the Bk/yello wire and ground is the resistance of the circuit within the ignition module.
I suspect the engine shts down when the spark is retarded past the point of ignition. I'm an old mechanic and have seen engines unable to run when the timing is too far retarded.
That said I'm still looking for the proper test proceedure for the Ignition Module.

 

[Jleibold]

Re: No Spark

Disconnect the blk/yllw wire from the power pack or this multi connector you're talking about. If that wire is grounded anywhere, the engine will not fire.

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

I cut the wire at the Ignition Module and cranked the motor = No Spark.
I have a Simpson Multimeter (Analog) 260, when I meter the Power Generating coil the needle pulses a little but not enough to get a reading.
Do I need a Digital ?

 

[Jleibold]

Re: No Spark

With the blk/ylw wire cut, are you still reading ohms to ground on it on the engine side?

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

With the bk/yellow wire cut about 1" from the Ignition Module (I.M.) and the multimeter connected to the ground lead of the I.M. and the bk/yello wire, the internal resistance of the I.M. circuit is 800 Ohms.

 

[Jleibold]

Re: No Spark

That sounds like your problem. The blk/ylw wire is grounded somewhere. You shouldn't read any ohms to ground on the blk/ylw wire when it's disconnected from the ignition module.

Disconnect the wire on the engine side. Either cut it, or if there is a terminal, disconnect it from there. Verify that you do not read any ohms to ground where the blk/ylw wire was landed. After that, rewire it back to your ignition module. You're essentially replacing the blk/ylw wire by doing this. Unless you can find where your short is, then there is no need to rewire it.

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

The Bk/Yelo wire has been cut about an inch from the ignition module.
The reading (800 ohms) I get is the INTERNAL circuit reading of the ign. module.
Is there information any where of what readings I should get for the ignition module?

 

[Karl Albin]

Re: No Spark

Yesterday, 11/7/09, bouncing off the ridge in back of my home, I had that loud sound of a hood off, no air cleaner fitted, Johnson 6 HP outboard motor running from idle to almost full throttle.
The motor had refused to run about 6 weeks ago when I went out for a sail on Lake Raystown.
When I got home and pulled the flywheel off, the wiring had good continuity on all circuits. I posted here on iboats.com for help and I posted questions on it 9 times. Because it seemed to me the Ignition Module was a good possibility for the lack of spark on my last post 10/8, I asked:
?The Bk/Yelo wire has been cut about an inch from the ignition module.
The reading (800 ohms) I get is the INTERNAL circuit reading of the ign. module.
Is there information anywhere of what readings I should get for the ignition module??
No one replied so after a few days I went back to my initial testing of the wiring continuity, (as an auto mechanic I did a lot of wiring repairs). As I checked the leads, the tests were repeating themselves, all was looking good. As part of the test, I actuated the throttle which in turn moves the timing plate and there it was! The Ohms meter needle dropped to 0 for one of the 2 wires coming from the Coil that produces voltage for the Ignition System. Cutting open the wiring harness I found the break in the wire, repaired it and after sitting it in a barrel of water, start and run it did.
Thanks Y'All