Old Merc vs. OMC

[CATransplant]

Just for fun, I read through a lot of the posts in the Mercury repair threads. They sound a lot the same as the ones in the OMC threads, where I generally hang out, except for one thing:<br /><br />The Johnson/Evinrude threads are full of questions from folks who are working on outboards from the 50s and 60s. Almost none of that exists on the Mercury threads.<br /><br />Just as a matter of discussion, were the Johnnyrudes from that era just more durable engines than the Mercury engines? Are parts harder to come buy for old Mercs?<br /><br />I don't want to start a whizzing match, but the difference is striking, and I'm curious. I'm one of those cheapskate guys who gets along with old boats and old motors, and I'd like to know whether I should avoid older Mercs in the future.

 

[JB]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

OMC sold many, many more JohnnyRudes, Gales, Buccaneers, Vikings and even Sea Kings in that era than Merc sold.<br /><br />Parts are easily available for the "mature" JohnnyRudes, etc. and the engines are easy to work on.<br /><br />I always found the green Mercs harder to work on and harder to get parts for, even 30-40 years ago. I don't think that is evidence that the Mercs were less durable, but the factors that keep them going for 50-60 years aren't there.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

That makes sense, I think. I didn't realize that there were lots more of the OMC engines out there.<br /><br />I know there's fierce brand loyalty among owners of newer outboards.<br /><br />Looks like I'd better stick with OMC if I buy any more old-timers. I'm actually amazed at how readily-available parts are for these old guys. I guess OMC's practice of keeping the same designs in production for many years helps, too.

 

[Laddies]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Don't worry CA, Bombardier has already started to phase out older parts for OMC products

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Yeah, I know that BRP isn't supporting the older models much anymore. Neither are the OMC dealers, for the most part. I get odd looks when I go into my nearest one, and a suggestion that I just trash the old guy and buy one of their shiny new motors for a few grand. That ain't happening. <br /><br />Frankly, I'm surprised that OMC did so well with that for so long. I mean, my '58 RDS-20 is 47 years old now. Thanks to Sierra, though, we can still get the common stuff, and seals and bearings should be available from bearing houses for some time to come.<br /><br />Parts for 50s-vintage cars aren't so easy to come by these days, either, except for the commonly-needed stuff.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

ive known and seen PLENTy of people with old mercs.<br /><br />most of the old merc guys dont come here for help, they usually already know whats up with their zhit. go to oldmercs.com and see just how many old merc parts there are readily available.<br /><br />ive been to the merc dealer here locally for parts from the 60- and 70's and both were available.<br /><br />but jb is correct. omc sold MANY MANY more motors than merc did. <br /><br />thats the biggest factor right there.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

In my area there are many restricted lakes....restricted to 10hp. And the area is a steel dependent area. And many know the story of steel. So....the folks that fish the restriced lakes hang on to the older, as JB put it, "mature" John/Rudes cause the do run so well and are reliable. I have no quams about servicing them. And 98% of the owners appreciated that. I would say that probably 3% of the less than 10hp engines that come to the shop are Mercs in the 9.9/9.8 area. Good running engines. Owners like them a lot.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Typical stories....<br /><br />I.<br />Average guy with average mechanical ability and tools, and ablility to follow a manual picks up a1958 Johnson 10hp in a garage sale. Finds that it needs general tune-up stuff, but is in basically decent shape. Invests about $150 in a manual, coils, points, condensers, hoses, carb kit, impeller and lower unit seals. Finds it fairly easy to install all of the above parts and when he's done has a very nice running motor.<br /><br />II.<br />Average guy with average mechanical ability and tools, and ablility to follow a manual picks up a 1958 Mercury 10hp in a garage sale. Finds that it needs general tune-up stuff, but is in basically decent shape. Invests about $40 in a manual only to discover that it keeps referring to "special tools" and "shim gauges". Decides to attempt a waterpump replacement, investing in a new impeller. Removes the lower unit and then finds himself lost in maze of springs and clutches that make no sense. Can't even see the impeller to remove it because Mercury designed it to be well above the waterline, way up inside the exhaust housing. Decides to see if any of the "special tools" are available - Merc dealer laughs at him when he inquires. Gets frustrated with motor and asks wife when they're planning their next garage sale...<br /><br />End result - one old Johnson returned to service - one old Merc reduced to basket case status. With the right tools and knowledge, the Merc could probably be returned to service, but those with the tools and knowledge are getting fewer and further between, now nearly 50 years after the motor was built. Maybe after being bounced around through a few more garage sales it'll find that home that does manage to fix it up. Probably not, and it'll probably end up crushed and turned into auto parts in the Far East.<br /><br />Mercs had a higher level of engineering, which was fine when they were new and service was readily available, but 50 years after the fact that high level of engineering works against them. The same thing will likely be said about most of today's high tech motors - not likely to be still running 50 years from now....<br /><br />- Scott

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

i have a super silent six 5.9hp 1955 that still runs.

 

[Scali]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Yeah OK 1940's 1950's the Mercs may be harder to work on but lets foward the clock a decade or so.<br />The 4 cylinder 50's & 40's were good solid motors, the whole 4 cylinder line in fact & the tower of powers, black max's.<br />How many 1950 something motors do you see out there, not on the south shore long island in the bays & ocean where I boat..<br />Plenty of 20 year old Mercs though, OMC's too ..

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Hi Scali,<br /> The big thing that killed the '60s and early 1970s Mercs in salt (and fresh - just took longer) was the carbon steel driveshafts. They just got ate up, right below the waterpump. Water would then get inside the gearfoot and in short order, dead motor. Merc was about the last one to jump on the stainless steel bandwagon...<br /> That, and they used that crappy wire that gets brittle after a few years. <br /> OMC had their own issues - again with good engineering and poor serviceability (Mercury didn't have that market entirely cornered) of their electric shift lower units. They were well engineered and looked great on paper. They even worked great in service - until that first fishing line wrapped around the propshaft allowed water in through the seal. Parts for them are now getting harder to find, too. Lots of electric shift motors in scrap piles because no one wants to work on them.<br /> Like anything - if someone has the gumption and funds to do something, they'll usually do it. If you really want to salvage an old motor bad enough, you'll find a way to do it. The success rate for old OMCs tends to be a bit higher due to their 'generally' better serviceability.<br /> Another thought... One thing Merc has going for it is a bit of a caché among collectors. Kind of a "bad boy" image if you will. Image counts. A lean, tall Merc or a short, fat Johnrude? If you've spent some bucks restoring an old ski boat, you'll probably go for the Merc. Not everyone, but a lot.<br /> So many motors... so little time on the water...<br /><br />- Scott

 

[DJ]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

The big thing that killed the '60s and early 1970s Mercs in salt (and fresh - just took longer) was the carbon steel driveshafts.

One thing Merc has going for it is a bit of a caché among collectors. Kind of a "bad boy" image if you will. Image counts. A lean, tall Merc or a short, fat Johnrude?

I second both those statements.<br /><br />The second one always bothered me. Kind of like Dale Earnhardt. If acted, in the general public, like he did on the track, he would have been jail too often to race.

 

[Scali]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

What year did Merc start to use SS driveshafts ??

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

I think it was along about 1976-1978. <br />- Scott

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Chinewalker,<br /><br />Interesting comments on engineering there. I think you may be right on with them. If the old OMC motors are easier for an inexperienced hand to repair, then more of them will be kept running.<br /><br />Special tools are always a problem, once the dealers stop servicing older engines. As they become unavailable, it gets harder and harder to repair the things.<br /><br />And I'm quite certain you're right about the new generation of outboards. I doubt that many, if any at all, will still be in service 40 years down the road. It will just become impossible to service them as parts become obsolete.<br /><br />There's something to be said, I guess for the old magneto ignition 2-strokes, and OMC was brilliant for using the same parts year after year. Enough demand continues to keep the third-party suppliers making them.<br /><br />Cars are the same, now. Few of today's cars will become classics, just because it will become impossible to repair them after a certain point.<br /><br />I guess I'll stick to OMC outboards as long as I'm using old-timers.

 

[Scali]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Thanks Chinewalker, good info , couple things I've learned here., first my 1994 merc has the SS shaft & to avoid those pre 1978's if I ever get an oldie Merc, well older then my '94

 

[Mercathode]

Re: Old Merc vs. OMC

Old mercs were faster and better! Not to say that old J/E's were not good.