Outdrive or gimble bearing noise and overfill

[Fedds]

This is an odd one. I was in some rough water and flooded the boat pretty bad trying to get to land. Water up to the distributor in the engine bay. Engine was still running and we got it pumped out. Obviously water got into the gimble and bellows as the drive shaft was under water. Got on land, boat ran bad on the muffs, replaced the distributor. Boat ran fine. Pumped up the gimble bearing full of grease while it ran (this is a 2004 Rinker RX1 with the 5.0L MPI and Alpha Gen II drive). Figured we were ok, but I pulled the drive anyways to inspect. Had a mess of what I thought was watered down grease in the bellow housing (but it could have been gear lube). Gimble felt fine.

Boat then sat in the drive way for two weeks. Work was insane. Fired the boat back up on the muffs with the drive remounted and there was quite a bit of noise coming from the rear of the motor. Figured the gimble still had standing water somewhere in it. Decided to drop the boat in the water for a quick run so that when I pulled the drive again I could ensure it was dry in the bellows. Ran it on the lake for 30 minutes. Sound was a rumble or growl at idle that turned into a whine or turbo sound on plane. Decided it was not good to run it. Oh, and when I turned it hard over it made the noise worse. So likely the gimble or a U joint (which the u joint felt fine on the first drive pull and inspection) Back to the drive way.

Pulled the drive again. This time the gimble felt rough. Not as rough as I expected for the amount of noise. And there was a puddle of what I'm now confident is outdrive lube. So I'll replace the gimble bearing. Here's where it gets odd. with the drive on my DIY stand I pulled the 4 bolts for the upper gear box cover. The gear lube was under pressure (odd) and it was filled to the very top, not just to the vent (and when I filled it this season I filled it from the bottom till it came out the vent, put the vent screw in, then pumped some more till it was filling the remote reservoir...so I think I did that right given I have done it a 100 times). Why would that happen? The remote Reservoir does not look like it is any lower. Can a bellow filled with water and the uJoint spining force water into the drive? Or is this typical of another leak path where water can be sucked in? I will drain the lube tonight and look for water. Also, can noise in the upper gear box sound like this and change with turning the steering wheel? Or if the drive is too full can it make this noise? I assume it's forcing the lube out because there is no room for the lube to expand (although I would have though it would have just pushed it to the remote reservoir).

I'm so confused on this one and concerned the drive has something going on. Anyone see this before? Any ideas on how to best handle this? My plan was to replace the gimble, drain the drive, pull the top cover again and inspect that bearing and race. Not sure what else I can do other than a pressure test? Do you pressure test it with oil it the drive or not?

 

[Bt Doctur]

This is an odd one. I was in some rough water and flooded the boat pretty bad trying to get to land. Water up to the distributor in the engine bay

Well, that high got into all the wiring connectors, the power steering, the alt, and the starter and should have also made it into the engine.

Can a bellow filled with water and the uJoint spining force water into the drive?

Yes

 

[wellcraft-classic210]

YES--- A bellow filled with water and the uJoint spining WILL DEFINITELY force water into the drive. Its sound like that's what happened

I had the same issue caused by a torn main bellows in fresh water many years ago.

I had good success by flushing the drive with kerosene // pressure testing for piece of mind // then doing a few oil changes to ensure all the kerosene was removed.

The expertts hare may have more to add.

 

[Fedds]

well, crap. My gut said I should have dumped the drive lube and refilled it right when it happened. Since I ran it, any gut feel or experience if all that mixing helped to stop any corrosion, or just spread it to all the outdrive parts? Where's a cheap pressure tester you guys like and what pressure and time should I be testing to/for?

As for all the other stuff. Yep. Pretty troubled with all the other stuff that got wet. I will pull the starter as I'm sure the solenoid at the very least will start corroding and be an issue down the road. I gave the rest of the engine a once over. Most of the connectors that were underwater are sealed. I'll double check the PS and trim fluids, but they looked fine last time. Engine oil as well, but given the cost I guess I might as well just change it out.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Build your own pressure tester. You can find examples in the Adults Only Section. Test with the drive empty.

If you ran with any water in the bellows where the ujoints are, they needed immediate attention and greasing. Your current rumble means you need to replace them now.

If you wonder if what is in the bellows is grease mixed with water or drive gear oil, swipe a bit on your finger and smell it. Gear oil stinks, grease don't.

 

[stonyloam]

Yeah the driveshaft seal is designed to keep oil in, not water out. It may be that your bellows were full of water, and when the warm outdrive cooled it could have pulled some water in. The water would have decreased the viscosity of the oil and that may be the cause of the whine. You might be OK, drain the oil and grease the u- joints really well to get any residual water out.

 

[Fedds]

Ok, do I need to plug the area where the remove reservoir pilots into the outdrive, or will that little ball / check value seal up OK. What pressure do you start at and what leak rate is acceptable? Obviously, I can't vacuum test it like some of these posts ask without plugging that oil lube hole. Any best way to do it?

 

[achris]

That is a check ball and once the drive is removed from the bell housing it's sealed.

Pressure testing. Put a few PSI (about 3 or 4) on and hold it for about 15 minutes. You need to see NO drop. Then pressure it up to about 15PSI. Again, no drop in 15 minutes. I also like to vacuum test. My test rig is a pressure/vac gauge, so it's easy to do.

What oil were you using in the drive? If it's Merc/Quicksilver high performance, then it will tolerate and protect the internals with a higher water load than most other oils.

Chris........

 

[Fedds]

Yep, I only use the HP stuff. Drained her, really never saw any water. Some streaks of lighter color but so far after a few houts in the jar no seperation. Top cover oring was either bad or it tore when I pulled it off. Nothing in the top gear box concerning. A few spots on the top cover race smaller than a pin hole but you can't carch anything on your finger nail. Bearing and gears look great. Might have dodged a bullet. Have to wait for the oring to test it.

Marina wanted 990 to reseal the whole drive. I assume even at 15 years old a well cared for drI've doesn't need to just be torn down and resealed unless it's leaking

Also, anyone ever hear a drive that is filled to the brim? What did it sound like?

 

[QBhoy]

Jeez

I think water up to the distributor would have sank my boat. And almost certainly wrecked my engine with ingress of water.
Lucky man !

 

[achris]

Also, anyone ever hear a drive that is filled to the brim? What did it sound like?

On a Gen II with a reservoir, that's normal. Even if you only fill it to the vent plug, with the 'stirring' of the oil and air by the top gears, that air eventually makes its way up the reservoir line and is replaced by the oil from the reservoir. When I fill my drive I fill from bottom up, of course, but finish by laying it down on its side and filling it as much as I can. Saves having to 'top up' the reservoir between drive oil changes.

In the past, on drives without a reservoir, that air space was necessary to allow the oil to expand with temperature rise without risking popping the seals out. With the reservoir, expansion is a non-issue, it just goes back up the tube.

Chris........

 

[Fedds]

OK, the marina guys say it was normal as well to be filled to the very top with the gen II. I feel better now. When I drained the oil it looked fine and smelled like normal lube. My concern was that this thing ingested about a pint of water to fill it all the way to the very top, and that's a ton for how little lube these units hold. Doesn't seem to be the case so feeling better. The top o-ring failed on me on disassembly of the top cover, so I can't pressure test it till I get that part. top bearing and race look great. Concern still is some lube in the bellows. Now I'm wondering in the reservoir cap may not be venting and thus thermal expansion is pushing the pressure up to the point of pushing the oil out. Marina guy says they have seen this as well. Any one here want to weigh in? If anyone knows the temp we expect the lube to reach I can run the expansion and pressure numbers.

New gimble bearing doesn't have a grease hole. Perma-lube. Not sure I like that but it's in there now. U joints still feel good. Transfer pumping some of the other fluids from their reservoir to replace with new.

The bearing just didn't feel that bad to make as much noise as it was, so I guess I'm still looking for "something". The only other thing I think it can be is the input shaft bearing on the upper drive. Rotating the shaft by hand it feels fine, but I have the water pump resistance as well so it's slow turning and hard to tell.

 

[achris]

Ok. Marina guy and I agree on the drive being full, but I disagree about the leakage into the bellows. ANY leakage is a sign that the seal and/or its surface are damaged. The thing with lip seals is that they seal up better as the pressure rises (within reason). Expansion is a non-issue due to you having a reservoir.

Sealed gimbal bearing. Brilliant idea. Love it. Not seem a failed one yet.

New top cover 'O' ring. Just go to your local 'O' ring shop and get a 042 N70 off the shelf. About a tenth the Merc price too.

Chris.

 

[Fedds]

achris,
You were correct. When I did the leak check (and thanks for all the stickys on DIY ones gents) I found some bubbling from the input yoke seal. I was going to replace it on my own, but with the special tools needed AND that my good ol boy marina was light on work and could turn this repair quickly I let them do it. Pretty sure the yoke is also going to need replaced and then there is bearing preload to set...all the videos I watched on this didn't seem much harder than the wheel bearings on the trailer, but it was also all done by feel and I assume that if the input yoke is replaced then I have to reshim the gears for mate and backlash. So I punted. Besides, I have a starter to stand on my head and pull and other items I can do.

Hopefully I will be up and running this week. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[achris]

Don't need to replace the yoke. 2 options. If the yoke is only rusty up to the old seal, drive the new seal into its carrier about 20 thou deeper. It then rides on an undamaged area of the yoke and is just like new. Second option is to fit a 'speedie-sleeve' to the surface and a new seal. Just as good as a new one, and being stainless steel, lasts much longer.

Chris.......