Pay it or go to court?

Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Thechnowhatever always has a point. It is just difficult for some to see............ :D
 

deputydawg

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
1,607
Re: Pay it or go to court?

A yellow light means slow and prepare to stop, not proceed. BUT on the same side, the ticket was for running a red not a yellow, so....<br /><br />If it does not cost more for you with time and travel go to court and fight it. First look up the state law on red light offenses and make sure there is not a provision for yellows. Second you do not have to say anything unless they question you. If you represent yourself in this, making a statement or telling the court your side will open yourself to cross examination by the defense. Do not make any statements on your own behalf. <br />The only thing you need to do is introduce doubt. Ask the cop where he was stopped when he saw you. Then ask if he could see the light and your vehicle from where he was stopped. Then ask if it is possible remember POSSIBLE that the light turned yellow to red after you were into the intersection.<br />Then ask if he has a video tape of the offense. This will show he did or did not have a good view of the light and your vehicle.<br />If he says that because his light was green yours had to be red, introduce the idea that maybe the lights are not timed correct or had malfunctioned. Don't have to prove they did, only that they possibly could have. And if that is all he went b y for evidence, you don't have to disprove that either, just simply ask "so you did not in fact see the light in my lane?". If he says no, end there and save it for closing arguements. THEN point out that the officer did not in fact see your red light. <br />Then in closing arguements introduce the opinion that maybe the officer did not see the light clearly, and how hard it would be to see both the light and your vehicle from his vantage point. Don't offend the system by saying he lied, say it is possible he made a mistake. <br /><br />Go for it, what do you have to lose?
 

JRJ

Commander
Joined
Sep 11, 2001
Messages
2,992
Re: Pay it or go to court?

A few minutes ago, driving my wife home from a Dr. appointment, a woman with a small child ran a red. I was able to swerve and miss her, but I did get to see her eyes get really big :D
 

FLATHEAD

Captain
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
3,433
Re: Pay it or go to court?

DD, Man they take it seriously in Nebraska. <br /><br />I went one time in Pa. for not having baffles in my MC pipes. When we got to court it was me, the judge, and the cop. The cop gave his version first. Then the judge asked me to talk. I never denied having loud pipes. I simply stated that the cop pulled me over and ticketed me for no baffles but he failed to physically check it out. Stick a billy club in the pipes. He Never even looked at them at all.He just assumed!! I told the judge that would be the same as if he smelled the exhaust on your car and ticketed you for no cat converter without actually looking at it.The judge asked if it was correct that he did not check the pipes, and the cop agreed he did not. Thats all the judge had to hear, I got my money back. Nothing formal about the whole thing. It took about ten minutes. That officer was so pissed, if looks could kill I'd be dead :D
 

TwoBallScrewBall

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Messages
1,695
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Wow thanks for all the advice. <br /><br />The light was definitely yellow when I entered the intersection and I never saw it turn red, but I was not watching for it. I felt I had plenty of time. <br /><br />What compounded the situation was that there was a dumptruck in my lane ahead of me, and due to the fact it was moving pretty slow it extended my time in the intersection. This should all be on the cop's dash cam if he had one running. <br /><br />I could have stopped, the light is at the end of an off ramp and I was doing maybe 20mph tops. <br /><br />On the ticket, it states that the $115 includes fine, court costs, and various mandatory donations to EMS, etc. I work nights so I would not have to take time off work to appear, just lose a little sleep. <br /><br />I said nothing to the cop. He came to the window and asked for my documents which I had in my hand and gave him. He then said that he stopped me for disregarding a red signal at the light in question, and that he was at the intersection when it happened. I said nothing. He walked away and came back with the citation a few minutes later. That was all. <br /><br />I'll go to court, worst case, I lose. Thanks.
 

davemaxi1970

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Messages
272
Re: Pay it or go to court?

My brother is a lorry(truck) driver on approachind a set of lights with cop up the bum of his truck,they went yellow. he had a dilemma 1,brake hard and cop hits truck <br />2,go though yellow and risk a ticket<br />He chose 2 £60 fine and 3 points on licence later he laments his judgement <br />my opinion pay up youll never win<br />but if the cops behind you........ you know what to do
 

Dave Abrahamson

Lieutenant
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
1,497
Re: Pay it or go to court?

I was always told by my uncle/cop "The light was either green or red...don't admit to running a yellow". Good luck, I hope it works out in your favor.<br /><br />Dave
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Pay it or go to court?

I vote for plea bargaining it down, because your chances of winning are slim. If it's not an expense to go, then go early and talk to the prosecutor. Might even save the points.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Originally posted by Mark42:<br /> I vote for plea bargaining it down, because your chances of winning are slim. If it's not an expense to go, then go early and talk to the prosecutor. Might even save the points.
Prosecutor, In a traffic court? What State was this again? Yikes, yikes and more yikes.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Yep, in NJ traffic court the town procecutor is often available before court starts if you want to "negotiate" a deal. That usually means a reduced charge (and therefore points), and/or reduced fine. One stop shopping, and you are on your way.
 

Kenneth Brown

Captain
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
3,481
Re: Pay it or go to court?

The bigger cities and the money grubbers in Texas have those too. At 18 yo I had 2 wrecks and 5 tickets on my liscense. The town of Oak Ridge North (inbetween The Woodlands and Spring north of Houston) has a prosocutor. My $125 fine for illegal right turn ended up costing me over $700!. I was already on probabtion, was waiting to take DD. He offered me double court costs, double fine, advanced DD, and some "administrative fee" to keep it all off my record. What a deal I got huh?! :( They had me bent over the barrell and knew it. I accepted it as I had to be able to drive. Talk about being stupid.
 

imported_Curmudgeon

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
496
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Yeah, those money grubbers! Then again, in most states 2 wrecks and 5 tickets by 18 YOA would have cost your license for some months! Sometimes there are folks that just shouldn't be driving!
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Originally posted by Mark42:<br /> Yep, in NJ traffic court the town procecutor is often available before court starts if you want to "negotiate" a deal. That usually means a reduced charge (and therefore points), and/or reduced fine. One stop shopping, and you are on your way.
Sorry Mark, I thought the ticket was given in PA.
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Originally posted by Kenneth Brown:<br /> ... He offered me double court costs, double fine, advanced DD, and some "administrative fee" to keep it all off my record. What a deal I got huh?! ...
Anywhere else on the planet that would be called extortion.
 

deputydawg

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
1,607
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Don't want to start anything but if a person starts driving at age 16 like most states, or at 15 with a school permit like I did, 2 wrecks and 5 citations??? Maybe a defensive driving class was in order there?<br /><br />By time I was 16 I had wrecked 1 and 2 tickets that I earned! I would have paid anything to have them off my record for insurance purposes. I would have paid even more to keep mom and dad from finding out...but I was an idiot and tried outrunning them the second time so I had to make the phone call for a ride....<br /><br />The DD class here costs more than most tickets and you have to pay court costs. Totals around $200, but insurance doesn't find out. You could even take the completiuon certificate from the class I teach to your insurance agent and maybe get an additional discount. The neighboring county they have to pay $200 for their class, court costs of $45 plus still pay the fine. That is wrong, but to avoid insurance rates people do it.<br /><br />Basically the group I teach for has decided to keep the prices fair. But we also think we can charge whatever we want. Nobody is forcing people to take the class in most cases. It is an alternative to paying a fine and having a messed up driving record. There is nothing that says the class option must be given.
 

imported_Curmudgeon

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
496
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Anywhere else on the planet that would be called extortion.<br /><br />Anywhere else on the planet he probably would have left the courthouse by foot and stayed that way for a good while. I'd call it a prosecutor going a little too far in attempting to lighten the court docket - some people just damn well deserve what they get.
 

Kenneth Brown

Captain
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
3,481
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Originally posted by Old Curmudgeon:<br /> Anywhere else on the planet that would be called extortion.<br /><br />Anywhere else on the planet he probably would have left the courthouse by foot and stayed that way for a good while. I'd call it a prosecutor going a little too far in attempting to lighten the court docket - some people just damn well deserve what they get.
It was extortion and I did get what I deserved. I probably shouldn't have been driving after that. Two of the tickets I got before I got my liscense. Two of the others came shortly later. I deserved all of them. The 5th ticket was a bs charge. I din't commit any crime but I paid for it anyhow. It was a heck of a lot cheaper than a lawyer for a 16yo. One of the wrecks was entirely my fault. The other was a split fault accident between me and the mayors neice. Guess who got the blame? That being said even the 4 tickets and one wreck I should have been off the road. I worked hard enought that I made enough money to keep paying the tickets and insurance so they let me keep driving. Heck DD I had all of the tickets and wrecks within 3 months after turning 16. I just liked fast cars. Iadmit to what I did. I sure as heck paid the price for it too. Haven't had a ticket in 5 years. Last one was for a no seatbelt. Before that the previos ticket was the one in ORN in 92. Yep, I learned my lesson, just took awhile to figure out how much it was gonna cost me.
 

deputydawg

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
1,607
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Sounds like the start of my driving career. First tickets at age 14 and 15. Wrecked one at 16. Ditched a few with only minor injuries. Tried to an even succeeded in outrunning a few times. Never lost my license, but was within a point. <br />My best was at 15, running a stop sign, sliding the corner right through the intersection a block from the police station at shift change. I tried to run but there were too many of them too close. I had an excuse though, someone was chasing me wanting to kick my rear. One of my last ones, I rolled the tires off, producing a very impressive cloud of smoke, then took off sliding all over my lane. I should have looked, one of the boys in blue was at the light right in front of me! <br /><br />A few years ago I went to a convention and happen to run into the cop who gave me my first third and fourth tickets. That was 20 years ago and many miles away but he remembered me. Took a while but it came to him. He said he never had to harass us, he knew me and my friends it was only a matter of time and we would f up. <br /><br />It does make me good at what I do now though. I know what the dumb kids are thinking or not thinking. I also remember most of the tricks.
 

deputydawg

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
1,607
Re: Pay it or go to court?

Sounds like the start of my driving career. First tickets at age 14 and 15. Wrecked one at 16. Ditched a few with only minor injuries. Tried to an even succeeded in outrunning a few times. Never lost my license, but was within a point. <br />My best was at 15, running a stop sign, sliding the corner right through the intersection a block from the police station at shift change. I tried to run but there were too many of them too close. I had an excuse though, someone was chasing me wanting to kick my rear. One of my last ones, I rolled the tires off, producing a very impressive cloud of smoke, then took off sliding all over my lane. I should have looked, one of the boys in blue was at the light right in front of me! <br /><br />A few years ago I went to a convention and happen to run into the cop who gave me my first third and fourth tickets. That was 20 years ago and many miles away but he remembered me. Took a while but it came to him. He said he never had to harass us, he knew me and my friends it was only a matter of time and we would f up. <br /><br />It does make me good at what I do now though. I know what the dumb kids are thinking or not thinking. I also remember most of the tricks.<br /><br />My last ticket was by my supervisor. He caught me coming into town in my 1994 Mustang GT rolling about 105 in a 55. I almost didn't stop, but figured he saw who it was.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: Pay it or go to court?

This thread has really run the gammut from a questionable citation, where the cited admits a citable situation to a questionable judgement regarding public safety to a sworn officers admission of guilt and non prosecution. America, you gotta love it.... :eek: :eek:
 
Top