Pool noodle flotation verdict?

[Chris1956]

The best answer is to use closed cell foam in any area of the boat that is available for floatation. After foaming under the deck, build a waterproof deck using 1/2" plywood, coated on all sides with poly resin, and screwed into the stringers and frames with Stainless steel screws. Now lay a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth over the plywood and saturate it with poly resin. The deck is now waterproof and will remain so, unless you screw it up.

My seaswirl has foam under the gunwales and behind the side panels. Not a bad idea, if you think under-deck foam is inadequate.

OK, now the boat is structurally safe, has as much foam as is possible, and is waterproofed. No don't be a fool and drill holes into the deck to mount the seats, and forget to seal the fasteners.

Noodles are pool toys. Soda bottles are for recycling into composite decking planks. Neither are adequate substitutes for structural foam.

 

[minuteman62-64]

I used pool noodles to fill the rear-side compartments on my aluminum skiff. Factory floatation is blocks of foam placed loose under seats - that's still in place. No structural or sound deadening benefits there. Previous owner had removed foam blocks from the rear-side compartments to provide battery and other storage.

When I re-did the rotted plywood over the compartments, I used nuts and screws for fastening - needed access to under sides of compartments. So, put in access hatches, assembled plywood pieces and filled voids with pool noodles through the access hatches. Not perfect, but got to be better than it was. Plus, when I want to get in there again I can pull out a few pool noodles and access the fasteners.

Next time I go in there I may get some foam blocks that fill maybe 2/3 of the compartments - leaving room to get my hands in to tighten the fasteners. Then fill the remaining voids with removable pool noodles. Again, not perfect, but another step forward.

 

[minuteman62-64]

a single noodle won't float 25lbs of weight

a single noodle will 'float' my 225lbs because I'm 'naturally buoyant

a cubic foot of pour in expanding foam will float 62lbs

Seems like comparing apples to bananas. A 3" diameter x 36" long pool noodle has a volume of a little over 0.1 cubic foot. A cubic foot of foam has a volume of ....... (wait for it) .... 1 cubic foot

The single pool noodle would provide a little over 6 lbs. buoyancy. The question is, how many pool noodles could you place in a 1 cubic foot void.

 

[bruceb58]

deleted

 

[jbcurt00]

Seems like comparing apples to bananas.

Yes, you are right, it is comparing unequal things: Only 1 of the 2 mentioned foams is FLOTATION foam

The question is, how many pool noodles could you place in a 1 cubic foot void.

Less then 10

A 3" diameter x 36" long pool noodle has a volume of a little over 0.1 cubic foot. A cubic foot of foam has a volume of ....... (wait for it) .... 1 cubic foot The single pool noodle would provide a little over 6 lbs. buoyancy.

Ok, since you didn't post the math, here ya go:
You can get 16 1ft pieces of 3" noodle in a 1CuFt square. Set in a grid 4 noodles up and 4 noodles across (4 pieces of 3" diameter noodle = 12"). That's 5.33333 36" long noodles cut into 12" pieces. Using your 6lbs of buoyancy # for a 3" diameter, 36" noodle, that's just under 32lbs of 'flotation' which is just UNDER half the flotation value of 1CuFt of pour in foam. Which was the point anyway, regardless of whether a noodle would or would not float 25lbs or comparing the float value of 1 noodle to 1CuFt of pour in foam. Equal volumes of noodles don't float the same weight as pour in foam will, plus noodles DO absorb water, easily and frequently.

Just for fun let's compare 1 CuFt of blue/green/pink XPS rigid insulation foam. You can get 1CuFt of flotation foam 'value' from square cut pieces of insulation that fills the 1CuFt void completely, similar to flotation foam. Although the rigid insulation foam may not float quite the same amount of weight as pour in foam does, it certainly floats more then 16 1ft pieces of noodle does. Possibly a good deal more. Somewhere @iboats a float comparison has been done rigid insulation VS pour in foam and if I remember correctly, it's nearly the same flotation value for rigid insulation as for pour in foam. Pour in does offer other benefits insulation does not, particularly (IMO) resistance to fuel. Ease of getting additional foam if you run short or find somewhere that can take just a little more, ease of installation, hope that the insulation will allow water to drain out of the boat instead of becoming trapped below decks and cost are insulation's primary benefits.

In your example of adding noodles to a confined space above decks, like on your boat, I agree, it is better then nothing and is certainly better then your PO did removing foam. But it's still likely less float value then whatever foam was there originally.

To Sub's original question: I'm happy to say, that no matter what type of float foam, or complete removal of it, to the best of my knowledge there has been no flotation foam dependent incidents posted @iboats. But unless someone's experienced a severe swamping, bilge pump failure at the dock, catastrophic hull damage or whatever, there wouldn't be a 'need' for the flotation. Hopefully no one (pour in foam fans or fans of any of the alternative methods mentioned in this Topic or others) ever puts their flotation 'plan' to the test.

Throw a bunch of packing peanuts in a plastic bag full of empty plastic bottles, mix up some pour in foam and fill any remaining areas of the bag with it, if you wish. Then lash it to your boat or stuff it into a cavity or compartment. It is your boat, you are certainly free to resto, rehab or mangle it however you see fit. Just don't be surprised, that when you least expect it, and most need it to perform it's intended purpose, it lets you down. When it does, I hope you and anyone aboard or nearby is around later to watch the highlight reel on YouTube.

Boat and boat resto safely.

 

[jigngrub]

. Hopefully no one (pour in foam fans or fans of any of the alternative methods mentioned in this Topic or others) ever puts their flotation 'plan' to the test.

Sorry JBC, but I completely disagree with the above statement. I think that anyone that thinks they're brilliant enough to deviate from the manufacturers OEM floatation design and designs their on floatation system should be man enough to test their design in a "real life scenario". This means launching their boat and taking it to shallow water and pulling the bilge drain plug to see if their brilliant design actually works before they have to find out it doesn't work in a state of emergency. You're going to be man enough to build it, you should be man enough to test it too!!!... and anyone that designs their own floatation system should shoot for something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M30nDtZ4iys

How many pool noodles do you reckon it would take to float a boat that well?.... Come on men, put your pool noodles and plastic drink bottles where your mouth is and take that boat to the shallows and pull the plug!!!... any takers?

 

[oldjeep]

Meh, anything over 19ft doesn't have any flotation foam in it. Not particularly concerned if you use pool noodles, ping pong balls or spray foam. If the boat is sinking grab your life jacket.

 

[Grub54891]

No Title

Hhmmm.... I simply poured in the 2-part foam,sealed the deck,and did it right. No doubt in my mind that I not only kept the structure of the boat but also the floatation factor intact. If the pic works,you can see where the holes were drilled and plugged after foaming.

 

[jigngrub]

Meh, anything over 19ft doesn't have any flotation foam in it. Not particularly concerned if you use pool noodles, ping pong balls or spray foam. If the boat is sinking grab your life jacket.

Who needs a life jacket when your boat floats like this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M30nDtZ4iys

... and your statement about boats over 19' not having floatation is wrong.
Check out Hutch in this 26 footer:

http://www.keywestboatsinc.com/mfgplant

 

[GA_Boater]

Jig - I noticed in the vid after they trailered the boat, that they didn't have the plug in. Big dummies, they coulda sunk her. :lol:

 

[jigngrub]

Jig - I noticed in the vid after they trailered the boat, that they didn't have the plug in. Big dummies, they coulda sunk her. :lol:

Well we can be sure they weren't from Al. or Ga. so it doesn't make us look bad. Those boats are made and tested somewhere way up younder where they get that ice and snow stuff yanno. Somewhere close to here :canada:

 

[oldjeep]

Who needs a life jacket when your boat floats like this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M30nDtZ4iys

... and your statement about boats over 19' not having floatation is wrong.
Check out Hutch in this 26 footer:

http://www.keywestboatsinc.com/mfgplant

All right fine - boats over 19ft are not required to have flotation foam and most of them don't, mine doesn't have a bit of it.

Edit - boats over 20ft are not required by the USCG to have foam.

In any event, relying on a swamped boat to float isn't your best survival plan.

 

[Chris1956]

To be clear, that Lund floated nicely because the foam was under the gunwales and other places designed to make it float level.

A lot of boats will not float level if they are swamped. They turn over because all the foam is in the floor.

The requirement they are meeting is to float. There is no requirement for them to float level. Also, a lot of boats will float bow up, with the stern under water, due to the weight of the motor. These meet the requirement as well.

 

[jigngrub]

To be clear, that Lund floated nicely because the foam was under the gunwales and other places designed to make it float level.

A lot of boats will not float level if they are swamped. They turn over because all the foam is in the floor.

The requirement they are meeting is to float. There is no requirement for them to float level. Also, a lot of boats will float bow up, with the stern under water, due to the weight of the motor. These meet the requirement as well.

The term and regulation is for Level Floatation.

Here is a description of the term Level Floatation:

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulatio...n_part1_h.aspx

If the boat floats with just the bow sticking out of the water or it capsizes it is not in compliance with the regulation.

 

[Chris1956]

Jig, The USCG floatation requirement was amended in 1999. I did not do the research to determine what the regulations were before that.

Most of the boats I have seen over the last 40 years only had floatation under the deck. I have seen these floating upside down when swamped. I think it would be a good poll for the members to see what kind of floatation they have, that is not under the deck. My '98 SeaSwirl clearly has floatation under the gunwales, and under the side panels, as well as under the deck. I never looked to see if it had foam anywhere else.

 

[jigngrub]

Jig, The USCG floatation requirement was amended in 1999. I did not do the research to determine what the regulations were before that.

Most of the boats I have seen over the last 40 years only had floatation under the deck. I have seen these floating upside down when swamped.

Back in the olden days or yore when they were first starting to put floatation in boats, that's the only place they put it... and it wasn't "upright and level floatation" it was just floatation and all they were doing was keeping the boat from going to the bottom no matter how it floated after it took on water.

Hanging out in the restoration forum you can see how the boats of yesteryear have evolved from just floatation to upright and level floatation as people dissect their boats from different decades. It started out back in the 60's and early 70's with just sticking as much beaded Styrofoam under the deck to keep the boat afloat... maybe. They didn't consider leaving any foam out along the keel for ballast to keep the boat upright if swamped.

Nowadays floatation is left out of the keel area on most boats for ballast and drainage, and more foam is added under the gunwales and other areas in the form of pods or logs to compensate for the bare area.

Just because a boat is sold new with upright and level floatation doesn't mean it's going to stay that way after it's sold. If an owner neglects his boat and lets the foam get saturated and it loses it's buoyancy there's no telling how the boat is going to float after being swamped, or even if it's going to float at all! If the aft area floatation becomes saturated and the boat swamps the boat will surely float with the transom below water and the bow sticking up. If the boat is stored on a slope and water accumulates and saturated the floatation on one side it'll probably capsize when swamped. There are lots of variables for this.

The good news is that even the old boats with the antiquated floatation designs can be redone and made to float upright and level if the person restoring the boat understands the concept of level floatation... but from what I've seen, not too many people understand that concept.

A lot of people restoring their boats think that spending $200 on floatation foam is outrageous and isn't worth it, I think otherwise. I think $200 worth of foam is very cheap insurance when you consider the cost and amount of work that has gone into a restoration. I also think that my life and the lives of my passengers are priceless and that makes the floatation at any price worth it.

 

[NYBo]

^^^Well put, JnG.

 

[Chris1956]

Jig, So it is safe to assume that you are against noodles and soda bottles as built in floatation?

 

[jigngrub]

Jig, So it is safe to assume that you are against noodles and soda bottles as built in floatation?

Lets just say I would really really like to see someone test their noodle and/or soda bottle floatation system before I completely make up my mind about them.