Power Trim

imported_JD__

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
243
My son-in-law purchased an old Ranger bass boat, a 185-A. It has a 150 Mercury inline 6 cylinder engine on it ser# 3916217. The trim pump is separate from the engine and mounted in the boat storage area. The problem is that the trim works real slow and he also said the engine will come out of the water when you put it in reverse. The pump motor runs but the engine seems to come up in stages in a jerk/hessitate manner. I removed the filler plug and noticed the fluid was foamy on top. One of the hydraulic lines was a little loose so we tightned it. We then drained the pump and added fresh oil. After cycling the trim several times it got better but is still slow. If you grab hold of the lower unit and physically lift or push down it feels spongy. There are no apparent leaks. I would really appreciate any help, the boy just got back from Iraq (Infantry) and can't afford shop prices. I feel like I can do the work if I knew where to start.<br />JD
 

michaelbr1

Seaman
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
51
Re: Power Trim

Sounds like you still have air in the system. Do you have a manual that tells you how to bleed it?
 

garyj

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2004
Messages
38
Re: Power Trim

JD,<br />This may help...<br /><br />HYDRAULIC BLEEDING SYSTEM <br /><br />The trim/tilt unit with two small trim cylinders and one large tilt cylinder is almost a "self-bleeding" system. Actually, the "bleed" operation is accomplished through the fill screw. To check for air in the system, first activate the UP circuit and raise the outboard slightly with the trim cylinders. Next, exert a heavy, steady, downward force on the lower unit. If the trim rods retract into the trim cylinders more than 1/8" (3.2 mm) there is air in the system.<br />WARNING !!<br />TRIM SYSTEM IS PRESSURIZED! DO NOT REMOVE FILL SCREW UNLESS OUTBOARD UNIT IS IN CORRECT POSITION.<br />If the trim/tilt pump and motor are installed in the boat, the outboard unit MUST be in the full down position.<br />If the trim/tilt pump and motor are installed between the clamp brackets, the outboard unit Must be in the full UP position.<br /><br />TIGHTEN FILL SCREW SECURELY BEFORE MOVING OUTBOARD.<br />Raise the outboard unit to the full UP position. All three pistons will be fully extended. Once the unit is in the full up position, release the button and engage the tilt lock lever. Now, momentarily depress the UP button just a couple times. De-pressing the UP button, for a second or two, will send current through the UP solenoid to the electric motor; the motor will drive the pump; air in the pump will cause it to "squeal"; the pump will draw fluid from the reservoir; the pump will attempt to send fluid to the tilt cylinder; the piston cannot move because it is already extended; the pressure will increase to 425 psi (2930 kPa); the port side pressure relief valve will automatically open; the excess fluid will be returned to the reservoir, purging the system of air. Actually, the air is returned to the reservoir. <br />At this time, SLOWLY remove the fill screw and the trapped air will escape. Add fluid, if necessary. Understand, a small amount of air will remain on top of the reservoir under the cap. This is caused by the design of the cap and reservoir and as a "cushion" for the system. Remove the tilt lock lever; depress the DOWN button; lower the outboard unit to the full down position. Now, momentarily depress the DOWN button for just a second or two, a couple of times. Depressing the DOWN button for a second or two will again activate the system; air in the pump will cause it to "squeal"; the pump will draw fluid from the reservoir; the pump will attempt to send fluid to the "down" side of the tilt cylinder; the cylinder cannot move because it is already retracted; the pressure will increase to 425 psi (2930 kPa); the pressure relief valve in the port side trim piston will automatically open; the excess fluid will be returned to the reservoir, purging the system of air. Actually, the air is returned to the reservoir.<br /><br />Raise the outboard to the full up position again. Engage the tilt lock lever. SLOWLY remove the fill screw again and the trapped air will escape. Add fluid, if necessary. Repeat the above procedure two or three times and any and all excess air will be bled from the system. After the air leaves the system, a noticeable change in the sound of the pump motor laboring with the outboard unit in the full up or down position will be heard.<br />As a further check, make the initial test for air again by first raising the outboard with the trim cylinders just a few degrees, and then exerting a steady downward pressure on the lower unit. If the trim rods do not retract into the cylinders more than about 1/8" (3.2 mm), all excess air has been bled from the system.<br /><br />Southern Catfisher :)
 

WillyBWright

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
8,200
Re: Power Trim

Welcome Home, son of JD! Glad to have you back. Bet you have some stories to tell, huh.<br /><br />Those trim systems are spongy. Not much for parts available for them. You can get a new and vastly imprived pump unit which would be your best choice if you can afford it. Don't know the price, but I'm thinking in the $500+ range. Otherwise just cycle it up and down until the air works its way out. Foaming isn't unusual. What did you use for fluid? It's supposed to get SAE 20 motor oil (like anybody on the planet sells that!). ATF is usually the most common substitute, or hydraulic jack oil. Neither is recommended, but you gotta use what you can get, right?
 

imported_JD__

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
243
Re: Power Trim

No I don't have a service manual, I was advised to use ATF by someone else and used that. Thanks to all and especially Southern Catfisher, it would have taken me a month to type that much information! I'll let you guys know what happens.<br />JD
 

imported_JD__

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
243
Re: Power Trim

We bled the system according to your recommendations. Everything seems to work fine now. <br />Thanks everyone!<br />JD
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
28,108
Re: Power Trim

Southern Catfisher, The bleeding procedure you published is different from the one described in my Merc Service Manual (circa 1978), for my '77 inline 6. Does it replace the one my manual cites?<br /><br />As far as I can tell, my T/T system is not self bleeding. The manual described the following procedure: first you tilt the motor down and remove the top (down)bleed screw, and run the pump until no air is bubbling out, and replace the screw. Then you diconnect the trim cylinders, make them horizontal, and remove the up bleed screw. Run the pump until there is no air bubbles, and replace the screw.<br /><br />My read on JD_'s serial number is that he has an inline 6 from pre-1977. Will your procedure work for him?<br /><br />PS - I have never found my T/T system to be spongy
 

Ben Konopacky

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
296
Re: Power Trim

chris1956; the t/t sys.catfisher explains is an other generation ofter yours and mine, it has 3 cyl. where ours has only two (2). I bleed mine the way you do .Had to do it twice after blowing old hoses .
 

garyj

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2004
Messages
38
Re: Power Trim

Chris1956,<br /> I got my information from a Seloc 1965-1989 Repair Manual. It shows three different types of trim/tilt options with directions for bleeding.<br /> <br />"Two trim/tilt cylinders"<br />"Two trim cylinders with one tilt cylinder"<br />"One trim/tilt cylinder"<br /><br />I assumed the above would work for JD_. Sorry if I gave bad information. :( <br /><br />Southern Catfisher :eek:
 
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