Presidential address on Irag

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Ralph asks if We want an incompetent fool to be president? The answer is no, and that is why I will vote against Bush. <br /><br />Then you state that " I can't help but think you would habe found fault where ever we went next" Wrong again. I supported our action in Afghanistan, and the first Gulf War. Which fell short of their intentions. I would not hesitate to support a military action id it were right and just. Sorry guys, Iraq is neither.<br /><br />Bush is running about a 53% - 48% approval rating, with a = or - 6 points depending on what poll is used. That doesn't really constitute a majority does it?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Well Trout, The country supported him and congress gave him approval. We are there now and we better win. Do you want us to win or would you prefer we just pull out?<br /><br />Luckily, you'll never know if Bush (and Clinton) were right about Saddam and his intentions. You won't have to worry about WMDs coming from Iraq being used on you, your family or your loved ones. And, you get to complain about it. What a country! In a perverse way, it is just too bad the country couldn't afford to prove you wrong with a mass disaster.<br /><br />Clark isn't qualified to carry Kerry's jock strap never mind GWs. He spent too much time in Europe drinking wine and easting brie. It turned his brain to mush.<br /><br />Forget the UN resolutions for a minute. Forget that he did not comply with the terms of the ebd of the first war. Forget the WMDs. Forget that he had a blood fued against the US after the first Gulf War. Even forget that he paid the suicide bombers in Palestine. The madman tried to kill a US President. That alone makes a war with him right and just.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

I never worried about WMDs from Iraq, because there weren't any.<br /><br />I'm more affraid of porous borders, and easy to develop mechanisms of terror. Nukes, Bioweapon are too hard to manufacture, import and disperse. <br /><br />The 9/11 plot cost nothing more than a few flight lessons, a flight simuator program, a few box cutters and 20 one way plane tickets.<br /><br />Timothy McVeighs bomb was a rental truck, fertillizer, blasting caps and diesel fuel.<br /><br />Can you imagine if someone was to drive a Timmy-bomb through the Queens-Midtown Tunnel? It wouldn't be that hard to do.<br /><br />I don't care what people did in their personal lives when they were young, dumb and full of ...... We all did stupid things in our college years. I won't hold what Bush, Clark, Clinton, Scwartzenegger did when they were essentially kids against them. Its nothing more that cheap politics that avoids the issues.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

SEE [CORRECTION]

lakeman, so your one of those "your either with us or against us" kind of guys. I didn't say I was against our troops and I didn't say I was for the terrorists. It is simpletons like you who give conservatives a bad name. I believe our troops go where they are told to and do what they are told to do. I think it is up to our leaders[CLINTON] to make sure that when the troops are are put in harms way that it is justified.<br /><br />I think a great president[CLINTON] would work to eliminate the root causes of terrorism, using more than military action. Why are there terrorists in the first place? The starving, uneducated populaces of countries like Pakistan make for perfect terrorist breeding grounds, as people are taught to hate our country and use violence against innocent targets.<br /><br />President Bush[CLINTON] has done nothing. Where is the effort to do more than simply kill and capture the terrorists that exist now? Terrorism is a hydra: kill one terrorist and two sprout up in his place. To end terrorism involves a fundamental shift in the way we do business in this world. It would take a concerted effort to spread democracy and prosperity, something Bush[CLINTON] has shown no willingness to do.

Bushes actions dont reflect what you stated without example. <br /><br />The hydra theory sounds very academic, thank you Dr. Killmore. We will now surrender, Ha,Ha. <br /><br />My friend in war it is Us Vs.Them! and if you aint with us, then your against us. <br /><br />Lakeman, Killmore doesnt speak for this conservative. <br /><br />PS. Killmore, I fixed you post to Lakeman. Now it makes sense.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Kilgore, I forget who said it but it seems most appropriate. " The best Defense is a good Offense."<br /><br />While I agree with you that our border have become a seive if we can disrupt the support and infrastructure of the terrorist we should do so. Keep them off balance. I to am disappointed that no smoking gun has been found in Iraq but If Saddam and his cronies forwarded $.01 to OBL or any other terrorist network be it Hammas or others. They deabilitate any concept of peace. And in the larger picture is that not what we all want. History as proven time and again isolationism does not work. (WWI & WWII) Our lives and our economy are effected by what happens all over the globe. I think W. has done a fairly decent job to date. I look at the alternative, If Gore was in office we would still be debating if the he created the internet (cheap shot I know.) But I don't think we would be as proactive as we have been, and that would have sent the message that it was open season on Americans at Home or Abroad. At least now they MAY??? think it over or take longer to plan and that gives us a better chance to nail the Bast**ds.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Killmore, whats your point on your last post? Id like to respond to it also.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Gore would have handled 9/11 much like Bush. The country would have demanded it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

I'm guessing that I am the one some people are calling "killmore" <br /><br />The point I was making was that WMD are not a threat to the general American public. The threat is going to come from small easy to conceal terrorist cells, devices and easy to execute plots.<br /><br />Iraq never was a threat to us.<br /><br />Wealthy religious fanatics with easily manipulated stooges are.<br /><br />All we did by going into iraq was to galvanize their cause.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Killmore..er..Kilgore!<br /><br />

All we did by going into iraq was to galvanize their cause. <br />

Whos cause and what is it?<br /><br />

Bush wasted a key opportunity to go after the real threat, and went after a third rate dictator based on dubious "intelligence".<br />

What is the real threat? <br />According to Gore it is the automobile,(read book)Ha,Ha,.. <br /><br />Your all over the place here Dealmore..<br /><br />Whatever your point is I must respectfully disagree......Algore?....Ha,Ha, ..Ha^^^^

 

[11 footer]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Okay........time for this thread to die.<br /><br />The boat was a 27' CC Foutain with twin 200hp Saltwater mercs.<br /><br />If you don't know what I'm talking about dig threw all thies bull**** posts and figure it out.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Actually, I did't vote for Gore. the 2000 election had the sorriest excuses for candidates. I wrote in John McCain. ( I know, I know).<br /><br />Being from California, I like what is happening with the recall election. We actually have a choice of some pretty good candidates. This is the way all national elections should be run.<br /><br />But back to the topic: I don't think I am all over the place. Simply put, We should not have gone into Iraq. Now that we are in, we cannot simply pack up and leave like the Soviets did in Afghanistan. That will make Iraq ripe for the take over by a taliban-like organization that issues a very brutal regime of law and order. That would create even bigger problems for us.<br /><br />In the meantime "nation building" is going to cost a few thousand more lives and at least $100 billion dollars of yourtax dollars by the time the dust settles.<br /><br />Gas won't be any cheaper, and we'll just have more angry islamic militants that are crazy enough to take one for the team.<br /><br />So....What's so hard to understand? and where am I all over the place?

 

[oddjob]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Ryan, I think its a Carolina Skiff in the Fla. keys?

 

[SCO]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Trout says: 1)"The point I was making was that WMD are not a threat to the general American public. The threat is going to come from small easy to conceal terrorist cells, devices and easy to execute plots."<br /><br />2)"Iraq never was a threat to us."<br /><br />the show aried on PBS, "Frontline", concluded that biologicals were Saddams WMD of choice. How can you conclude that Iraq was not a threat? We have porous borders North and South. I think that you labor under a false sense of security and invincibility. It is almost demeaning/arrogant to think that way about that enemy, and definitely an underestimation. <br /><br />With regard to the hydra theory, Clinton left them alone, and look how well that hydra propogated.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Trout, I hear what you are saying although I disagree. You seem to think we stired up a hornets nest and are now more likely to be stung.<br /><br /> I think 911 proved that just ignoring these nuts won't work. They are out to kill us. And, unless we are willing to give them what they really want (a middle east free of jews and no American influence in any way shape or form in the area), they will continue to attack us. They think we are weak and corrupt and by terrorising us, they can defeat us. I think Bush put it best last night:<br /><br />

"The surest way to avoid attacks on our own people is to engage the enemy where he lives and plans. We are fighting that enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan today, so that we do not meet him again on our own streets, in our own cities."

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

Just curious as to how long you all think we will keep troops in Iraq and the mideast? <br /><br />I hate to use the word "occupation", but... 5 years? 10 years? <br /><br /> A good friend of mine who is directly of middle eastern descent, explained to me in a three hour chat, how he thinks it will take generations to stop the fighting in the mideast... Since the begining of time, War and fighting in the name of God and religon the only thing the people know or understand, its passed down from generation to generation.. I believe he is %100 correct..<br /><br />My guess, if the current form of action continues as is; it will take at least 50 years to finish the job and "win the war against terrorism"... Maybe even longer... But, I'm patient.. At 30 years of age now, if I keep myself healthy, I may be lucky enuff to see the very end of it all, I hope...

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

You may well be right snapperbait.<br />You will be 80 and I'll be at the bottom of my<br />favorite lake.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

SB - you can call a Spade a Spade. It is an occupation. But, it is a necessary one. IMHO, as long as we keep the fight in their back yard we won't be fighting in our back yard.<br /><br />The will be no peace in the Middle East until the Arab-Israeli conflict is resolved. The only way a solution will be found is by forcing a settlement through arms.

 

[SCO]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

SB, maybe we should just move the troops from Germany to Iraq. Just kidding, but the answer is as long as it takes. What's the alternative? Civilization has always been a struggle. Maybe we just don't get to take it easy and have peace without this kind of fight. What Society has ever been able to do that?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

What most people fail to realize is that there never will be peace in that area. And there never was.<br /><br />The mid east is nothing more than a festering boil on the arse of humanity. <br /><br />Every great power tried to bring reason and calm to that area of the world. Never happened. The Greeks, the Romans, The Mongols, The British. Some with noble intentions, some with imperialistic intentions. None succeeded. Should be a lesson learned.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Presidential address on Irag

SCO...you're right, not just kidding. Next time our Euro friends are in a dire need of help (another WW2/Bosnia/etc.) we should perhaps apply their morals and say "your problem, sorry." Or, "somebody else will do the tough work."<br />But, I doubt we would. We are better than that. That's why there are thousands of (oh no, I said it) "crosses" in certain parts of France.<br />Kilgore....please, describe to me more the failures of the Romans, Greeks, and Mongols to establish peace in the Eastern Mediterranean across through to the Arabian Sea. I would be most curious to hear about their travails and how their societal version of democracy and government compared to ours.<br />Please....for those who disagree with the strategy...more FACTUAL THOUGHT, and less name calling/slandering (GW in a trash barge)/et.al. Is that all you got?