Presidential address on Irag

FLATHEAD

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

LOL, good old Mercy, Thats all we need
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

PW, be honest now, are you an American Citizen or are you a Canadian Citizen? I have this funny feeling you are Canadian based on all the Canada references in your past posts.<br /><br />BTW, you're Vietnam comparison is so bad I won;t even bother taking you to school on it. Evrybody who reads it sees how inane it is already...
 

NOSLEEP

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Ralph, get real is he a CANADIAN LOL<br />your killing me.
 

lakeman1999

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Apr 20, 2003
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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Ryan, as you grow older and mature, you will find out that you can debate, and argue an issue, without getting mad and all bent out of shape. All youngsters have a bad case of the dumba$$ while in their teens. There is a lot of the threads on this forum, and some topics that I never click in on, because I am not interested in the subjects. If you are not interested in political debate, do not click on the subject. You try to be noticed is your big problem, but hopefully you will outgrow it. When I was your age, I was instructed by my father that children were to be seen and not heard. :D :D
 

lakeman1999

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Hey Ralph, maybe woody is one of those draft dodger buddies of "SLICK WILLIE" that moved to canada (northern wetbacks) o escape the draft :D :D .
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

I dunno but he knows a lot about Canada and mentions it a lot in his posts. I honestly think he may be a Canadian. It also explains how little he really knows about US History and jnot feeling threatened by Saddam
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NOSLEEP

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Hed have to be French Canadian to have ideology<br />like his.lol :D
 

Kiwi Phil

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

I may come from the other end of the world, but we had Bali (although minor) as you had 11 Sep. I can't work out the association between terrorism and Iraq. <br />If you want to go after terrorists, then try Afganistan (which you have) and Saudi (where several of your highjackers came from).<br />We in Australia are going after the Bali Bombers, but we are not reducing Bali to rubble to get them. And several of them are in custody.<br />The US Administration will not defeat the Iraqi's. They will push you out, because you can never win the hearts and minds of people with bombs, guns and bullets. <br />It is not that these people dislike you, they just object to you killing their kids, blowing all their infrastructure to bits, then occupying their country, then putting up some old crocks who have probably never lived in the country for decades as their leaders. (havn't we seen this before) <br />Treat people as you would have them treat you. If you don't have those people on your side, you'r screwed, <br />The reason for you going to war with Iraq was to get the weapons of mass destruction, now it is for the war against terrorism. How come it changed? Maybe they couldn't find those weapons of mass decption.<br />Personally I feel you guys are being fed a decent load of bull**** from your administration. <br />Go after the terrorist movements, everybody will be with you, (including old Europe) but don't reduce a country to rubble just cause you can. It pi**** people off.<br />The price you are paying in your childrens lives (young soldiers) is too high; far, far to high.<br />Sorry for upsetting some of you, but that's part of the way I feel about it.<br />Cheers<br />Phil
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Ok, let me try to explain it.<br /><br />1) Saddam had WMDs - the whole world knows it and the UN documented it<br /><br />2) Saddam really hated us for three main reasons. First, he found out we were dealing secretly with the Iranians during the Iran Iraq war and second, GUlf War I. Third is what Arabs see as the US bending over backwards for the Israelis. Israel would not exist without the US. TYhe Arabs hate the jews so much they are willing to strap bombs around their children and send them to blow up cafes, buses, etc.<br /><br />3) After 911 we realized radical Islam is truly at war with the US. Further, we realized the crazy SOBs will do anything to hurt us including flying passenger jets into civilian buildings<br /><br />4) There were plenty of members of radical islam in Iraq, including the big training camp in Northern Iraq and one in Sothern Iraq. A top member of Al Qaeda was hiding out in Baghdad after after he was injured in Afhganastan<br /><br />5) The chances that a madman with WMDs would hand them over to Madmen that would use them became too great to chance for us - not you, not the French, not the Germans, but to us, citizens of the United States, the primary targets.<br /><br />6) We tried to get him to comply with all the UN resolutions. We tried to get him to go into exile. He chose to do neither so we took him out.<br /><br />7) Invading Iraq put the whole region on notice. While GW is President we will do what ever is necessary to protect our selfs from another 911<br /><br />That's the link, and why we did what we did. I for one, would advocate doing it again and 5 times on Sunday.<br /><br />Now I don't know how closely you followed the war, but we did very little damage to the infastructure of Iraq due to our ability to strike surgically. Something like 80% of all bombs dropped were of the precision variety. There was no mass bombing or mass destruction. Now if that pisses people like you off so be it. frankly, you tirad shows your ignorance about the war in all aspects; it causes and its prosecution. I don't fault you, it is just not very important to you and your fellow citizens.<br /><br />If even a small minority of Iraqis were against us we would be losing 100s of men each week. The country is till full of weapons of every sort. They are hidden everywhere inclusind hospitals, schools and mosques. Most Iraqi are thrilled to be free for the first time in 30+ years. - no more torture, no mass mass killing, no more fear and tyranny. I guess they did not show how the Iraqis greated us on the news down there. <br /><br />You would reduce Bali to rubble if the head of Bali was a madman who hated you and who had WMDs ready to relase on you.<br /><br />The botom line is that We have to do what we have to do to protect our selves. You were not here on 911 and obviously have no clue what it did to our collective pshycie. We fought two World Wars and didn't suffer carnage on that level. <br /><br />When and if you guys lose 3,000 citizens in one day because of an attack by radical Islam come on back and tell us all how you feel. I suspect you'll be ready to do whatever is necessary to destroy your enmeies and feel safe at home.
 

mikeandronda

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May 13, 2003
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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Right on Ralph...... once again great post. And Ryan no offence some of us love to read these debates. My repect grows each day for some of the people on this site from being able to read their posts as well as my knoledge on some things boat related and somethings that are not boat related.
 

plywoody

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

If it matters to anyone, and I have no idea why it should, I am indeed an American and have lived and worked both in Canada and the US. I am currently spreading time working between northern Michigan and Northern Ontario.<br /><br />And my former draft status is not a topic that I wish to discuss on this forum, other than to say that yes indeed I had the opportunity to move to Canada years ago, and chose not to. and yes, indeed it was a difficult choice. But I am indeed American, and very much pro-American.<br /><br />You see, I learned in civics class years ago that it is not only the right but the duty of every citizen to speak out when he sees something wrong, and try to change it. It is how a democracy works.<br /><br />I really get tired when the "patriotism" of those that disagree with your positions are challenged. <br /><br />I am not yet ready, as you seem to be, to annoint GWB as unchallenged king.
 

wvit100

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Ralph, You keep pushing the fact the the UN sanctions hadn't worked. What do you base this opinion on. Iraq was a shell of it's former self when we attacked. After years of sanctions from the UN Saddam was all but broken. His weapons programs were shut down, his economy was in shambles, he only controlled a portion of his own country, he was isolated from the world. France asked that we give inspectors until June to find any evidence of weapons but the US wouldn't have any part of it, Bush was gung ho on pushing our attack. Now inspectors have found evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, where does this end. The fact is that we cannot fight everyone that "might" somehow have some connection to terrorists. Attacking only causes more ill will against our country, how many terrorists have been borne from our attack on Iraq? Bush will be a one term president, just like his dad. I can't see how our country could take another 4 years like the last four.
 

plywoody

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Sadly, Wvit, while you are absolutely correct, and we had no business and no compelling interest in getting into this in the first place, unfortunately that is no longer an option. <br /><br />Someone asked what I would do in our current situation. I listened to Pat Buchanon this morning, and I could not believe I found myself agreeing with him completely. We have got ourselves into a situation where there are simply no good options.<br /><br />Buchanon's theory was to simply declare victory, and go home. While I (as did Buchanon) see a lot of downside to this, the poker player in me says that you cannot get back what you have already lost, and expanding it will only lead to more losses with little gains.<br /><br />I am, though, really curious what the neo conservatives on this board envision as a victory in this operation.<br /><br />Do they really think that somehow a western democracy will establish itself? And how is that going to happen? If it is a one person, one vote program, the Shiites are in the majority and would take over the country. Is that a victory?<br /><br />I cannot even imagine an outcome to this thing that makes any sense that is even remotely possible in that part of the world.
 

aspeck

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Ralph, JG, and others, I agree almost wholeheartedly with your posts and enjoy reading them. But I also enjoy reading posts from Kilgore, PW, et al. The beautiful thing about this country is that we are free to have differing beliefs. I do not think that PW or any of the others are anti-american. They firmly believe in what they are saying (even though I think they are wrong) and feel it is what is best for our country. I guess I enjoy reading their posts because I will analyze what they say and it helps me to understand my position better and to articulate my position better - in a way that the "other side" can better understand.<br /><br />We can never win arguments by name calling, being emotional, or degrading the opposition - that only pumps up those that believe in what we are saying - but by being factual and presenting facts that mean something to those that oppose your "opponents".<br /><br />So, PW and company, thank you for educating me and reinforcing what I believe by explaining to me what you believe and allowing me to see the holes in your theories. You have made me a better debater and keep the posts interesting. I applaud you.
 

wvit100

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

If attacking the terrorists is the answer how come Isreal is still having incidents like this. Isreal has been trying to put down a realitively small group of terrorists for years now and from what I can see it is only getting worse.<br /><br />JERUSALEM (AP) - An explosion went off near an army base in central Israel Tuesday, injuring dozens, police and rescue officials said. Security sources said it appeared a suicide bomber carried out the attack.<br /><br />The explosion occurred at a bus stop near both the Assaf Harofeh hospital and the Tsrifim army base near the Tel Aviv suburb of Rishon Letsion. Reports said there were many soldiers at the bus stop.<br /><br />Israeli authorities had been on high alert for terror attacks in the wake of Saturday's botched attempt to kill Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the founder and spiritual leader of the Islamic militant group Hamas. Security was especially tight in Jerusalem.
 

12Footer

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Plywoody said, "If it matters to anyone, and I have no idea why it should, I am indeed an American and have lived and worked both in Canada and the US. I am currently spreading time working between northern Michigan and Northern Ontario."<br /><br />Groovy...The terroists that hijacked the aircraft on September 11th 2001 werked, traveld, and learned how to use our technologies as WMD. I doubt they called themselves "American". <br />Where you live, werk and learn may or may not be your home. Even if it is, you need to be a part of it,to protect it and your nioeghbors wjhenever possable, to truely consider yourself "American". <br /><br />You also stated;<br />"And my former draft status is not a topic that I wish to discuss on this forum, other than to say that yes indeed I had the opportunity to move to Canada years ago, and chose not to. and yes, indeed it was a difficult choice. But I am indeed American, and very much pro-American."<br /><br />I'm sorry , but I must disagree with your perception of yourself. I no longer see you as an American,or only an American with a differing point of view. This has been a slow process of reality checks on my part. America is at war. We have brothers and sisters committed to combat in our name as "Americans". As you have clearly pointed out, they do not deserve our suport. Your reasoning of why does not matter(whether it's simply because Bush is boss or Hillarah is not, Sadmmn has done nothing to you,live-and-let live---Whatever), it don't matter.<br />What matters in the eyes of those you have chosen to suround yourself with here, is you lack of support, and constant, seathing hatered for our Commander In Chief, who, (like it or not), IS the king of our military machine, whether we individually voted him in there, or not!<br /> <br />You say, "You see, I learned in civics class years ago that it is not only the right but the duty of every citizen to speak out when he sees something wrong, and try to change it. It is how a democracy works.'<br /><br />Absolutely correct. But you must've slept thru the anarchy part. If this were a group or nation that invaded another nation, (as Sadamn did in Kuwait in 1991), I don't think your patriotism would be in question,and if so, not nearly to the absolute of calling you anti-American..But you are. By words only (who can speek of you actions on a website), you portray the devil's advocate, (that would be Sadamns advocate), to such an extent, as to align yourself with the mutants. This is as unAmerican as one can get, Plywoody.<br /><br /><br />I really get tired when the "patriotism" of those that disagree with your positions are challenged.<br />Since when does "patriotism" become un-patriotic??!!!<br />That's plain silly, Plywoody. You biactch about my country, my military, my Commander in Chief..You complain about the lives of those in harm's way are lost protecting us, yet you want them to come home before the mutants have been caged,and the free people of Iraq have a country free enough to offer-up the same kind of bildge you spout here!! Unbelievable!<br />Plywoody, I'll say it again. By what you type here, you are serving only one side in the conflict..That of global anrchy.<br />That's anti-american at this time.<br />period.If that upsets you, or "you grow tired" of the truth, then just go away. Find somewhere where your "patriotism" is recognisable.. Like "Alqueda.com" or something.<br /><br />And finally, this little jewel; <br />"I am not yet ready, as you seem to be, to annoint GWB as unchallenged king."<br />Thank you for making my point, better than I could, AlaPly Woodai.
 

oddjob

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Jun 19, 2002
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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Kiwi, and all lib disenters. Were winning and we dont need your (old europe..ha, ha) approval. :D <br /><br />Na.Na..Na.Na..NA! NA! :D <br /><br />
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wvit100

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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Hey oddjob, exactly what are we winning? I don't think there was any question that we could go in a beat Iraq's army. But what have we won? We had to go attack some of the Taliban that was reforming in Afganistan the other day and Afganistan still has no government or organization. Some of our soldiers were injured in Iraq yesterday by a mine and we have no decernable strategy for getting out of Iraq at this time, plus we are now on the hook for some unspecified period of time for some huge unspecified amount of money. So where is the victory? I can see the terrorists sitting back smiling at our problems, it seems to me that they are winning.
 

NOSLEEP

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Oct 30, 2002
Messages
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Re: Presidential address on Irag

Lets finish the job before we worry about getting<br />out. No need to turn tail and run.
 
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