Problem installing new gauges (pics)

[1980Galaxy]

So i tried installing some new gauges in the boat today since half of the old ones didn't work anymore. I wired the new ones up just like the old ones were and then tried starting the boat and NOTHING. seems like no power is getting to the dash. checked battery and its good, fish finder works too. I rechecked all my connections to the gauges and they all seem good. i checked the fuses behind the dash and the 2 right by the battery. are there any other hiding places for fuses that you guys know of? here are some pics of my wiring and dash. thanks for the help.

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

forgot about one thing: old gauges had an ammeter, new ones have a voltmeter. its the 3rd pic (i think) and the one all the way on the right. i really dont know if that would make a difference but i figured id let you guys decide on that

 

[dvan1901]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

It could make a difference; an ammeter is typically inline as it measures current and if they had it "in front" of the other guages to protect them, this could be why it doesn't work, because technically the circuit is not closed. A voltmeter works differently. What you could try is disconnecting the voltmeter and hook one connector to one end of an ammeter and the other connector to the other end of the ammeter and try it again. Make sense? If that works, then you know the circuit isn't closed.

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

i will try that next time i have a chance to work on it. i would still think that everything would work tho... maybe the volt gauge wouldnt work right but i wouldn't think it would affect everything else. and if that IS the case, what would i do to rewire to the volt gauge? thanks for the advice.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

Replacing gauges because the old ones didn't work just proved that was probably not a good troubleshooting technique as the new ones don't work either. I take it you soldered the wires directly to the gauges which is not a very good idea as you now have to cut wires if you need to remove one. If you didn't solder the wires it's no wonder nothing works. You went through a lot of work to do a less than stellar job of wiring. The terminations on the gauges should have had crimped spade terminals. The pictures show some spliced wires protected only with liquid tape. Those joints should have been butt spliced and covered with heat shrink. Your engine won't start because power is not getting from the battery to the key switch, then back to the starter solenoid and from the starter solenoid to the starter. None of the gauge wiring should have anything to do with that. The "S" terminal on the ignition switch should have +12 volts on it with the key in the START position. If not, you have a problem between the battery and the helm. If there is +12 volts on the "S" terminal, then the problem is between the "S" terminal and the solenoid/starter.

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

haha thanks for the put-down on the wiring job but very true. i didn't have enough wire to get to the terminals so i had to just strip it and run straight to the prongs with some solder. i just got that liquid electric tape so i thought i would try it out while i was at it

i figure it hasta be a problem with the wiring behind the dash since it worked fine before i tore everything apart. there won't be a problem somewhere in the back of the boat (i hope).

 

[dvan1901]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

i will try that next time i have a chance to work on it. i would still think that everything would work tho... maybe the volt gauge wouldnt work right but i wouldn't think it would affect everything else. and if that IS the case, what would i do to rewire to the volt gauge? thanks for the advice.

No, it wouldn't work. An ammeter "sits" inline of all the voltage and current, that's how they work. If you remove that, you have essentially left the circuit open. For an ammeter to work, all the current must run through the meter, with a voltmeter, it takes a sample of the voltage in the circuit. I bet if you take out your voltmeter and hook your ammeter back up, it will all work.

This isn't a great explanation, but good enough I suppose:
http://www.egauges.com/ATM_Tips.asp?TipPage=voltmeterammeter.htm

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

i understand what your saying, but i have all the wires hooked up to the voltmeter so there should be current running thru it. i found it odd that the volt gauge had the same number of prongs as the ammeter. why would a volt meter have a spot for sender(S)? i would only guess there would be a + and - and one for the light, thats it. im no expert at it tho

and i noticed there are 2 grounds for it too... why is that? looking at the pic (3rd pic) there is a neg in the middle on the bottom of the gauge(rear) and one right in the center. any thoughts? one for the light maybe?

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

nevermind about the 2 grounds... im a dummy. theres only 1 :redface:

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

I'm with the others on this, ammeter v/s voltmeter problem. Actually when I was reading through your initial post I was thinking of that.

From looking at the #3 pic and assuming the voltmeter is on the right,,, current from the red wire used to flow through the ammeter into the orange wires,,, and then to the ignition switch and everything else. Now that the voltmeter is there the circuit is not being completed. (BTW, hope you didn't fry the voltmeter trying to push all that current through it)

I would (cross your fingers and bust out the fire extinguisher ) remove the orange wires and put them onto the post with the red wire. This will complete the circuit the ammeter used to. Then address how the voltmeter is supposed to be connected,,, + and -.

You wouldn't happen to have a good pic of the back of the voltmeter,,, would ya? Just trying to figure out what the posts are marked.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

EDIT,,,

Move the red or orange wire(s) over to the + terminal on the voltmeter, see if you get power and the if the boat will crank. Then ground the - terminal on the back of the voltmeter.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

To keep costs down, Teleflex, Faria, and others often use the same rear case for several different gauges. While there may be an "S" terminal on the gauge, that does not mean it must be used. If you did wire the voltmeter the same way the ammeter was installed, you probably did "toast" it and in the process you blew the fuse that resides under the engine cowl if this is an outboard. If it's an I/O there will be a fuse or circuit breaker back at the engine that popped. Thats why the engine won't start.

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

thanks for the input. i sure hope i didnt fry anything although theres no signs of it. i checked all the fuses and they didn't trip either. i think (hope) that i didn't complete the circuit and thats the problem.

if i recall, there the back of the gauge has: I (red wire) S(orange wires) and a ground and one for the light.

so i will move the orange wires over to the 'I' and keep my fingers crossed. come to think of it, it makes more sense cuz i think the orange wires come from the ignition switch.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

Installing a volt meter in place of a ammeter although nothing downstream of it will work wont do any dmage. The inverse ammeter in place of a voltmeter would blow a fuse or possibly destroy the meter (it becomes the fuse).


Volt meters work between + and ground. Ammeters work in line between + and + (series). The downstream devices pull current throught the meter and it reflects the consumption of the devices.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

Installing a volt meter in place of a ammeter although nothing downstream of it will work wont do any dmage.

There in lies the problem, as the OP had everything in the boat connected to the voltmeter. (IE: swapped the ammeter for a voltmeter)

I'm not saying it's toast, but there is a good chance of it unless the gauge MFG built in protection for this type of mistake,,, high resistance between the + and - terminals.

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

just an update: nothing fried. i hooked orange wires up to the + terminal and the gauge worked, but only the volt gauge. and it didn't turn off with the key out of the ignition.

i think i can just connect the orange wires together and leave them off to the side but then i have to connect the red wire to something else so the gauge doesnt stay on the whole time the boat is not in use. come to think of it, i guess i could hook orange up to the + terminal because i think they come from the ignition but i still need to put the red wire somewhere else.

i have the ammeter back on there now and everything seems to be working alright. gonna leave it in there until i figure something out. this is more confusing than i originally thought it would be.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

It should not be confusing. If you installed the amp gauge and everything works again, all you need to do is disconnect the wire running from the gauge to the ignition switch "at the ignition switch". Then run the wire that currently goes "to" the amp gauge to the ignition switch and thow the amp gauge away. You will now have power to the existing gauges (minus the amp gauge) when the key is on. Simply connect the voltmeter "+, -, and L" terminals to the corresponding terminals on any other gauge. Done!

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

so your saying get rid of both the orange wires?

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Problem installing new gauges (pics)

no, sorry... i see what your saying. ill try that next time i have a chance. thanks for the help.