problem with repair shop

[rodbolt]

Re: problem with repair shop

515 dollars wont hardly get you a routine service on a pair of twin V6's .

last guy I heard telling the secretary to call him if it was going to be over 100 dollars I sent packing, dont want nor need that type of customer.
if ya walk in thinking I am gonna rip ya off I will send ya packing, rapidly.
if ya walk in, tell me it sat a long time, its old what do ya think, I will test it give you a reasonable scenieo and some cavets.
bring me in a 20 year old POS that was poorly maintained and odds are I am going to give a bleak assesment, fair but bleak.
I will leak down test it, spark test it, attempt to test run it, and give an honest opinion.
I own 4 boats, maybe more, one stays in the water I can usually keep the rest running. I aint got time for whiners.
ya either wish to fix your antique or ya dont.
if you cannot afford to pay to have it fixed you will have to buy a certain amount of test equipment and trust the internet nuts.
most the folks here wont steer ya wrong but you will HAVE to buy or make the test equipment we ask for.
its just that simple.
thios aint rocket science nor baby delivering but it doews require a few coins in test equiupment and a rudimentary knowledge, avalible at you local library if you can read, to accomplish the task.
I cant spell can barely read still cannot write cursive, but I can make a decision if a motor is worth fixing and why its broke.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: problem with repair shop

JasonJ,

The customer is not "always right". In fact they are ususally wrong about most everything they come up with. From an economic perspective, business's will often write off repair work as customer goodwill to keep a customer that they feel will continue to put money in their pocket. We have never done that. If we are wrong then we are wrong and we take economic responsibility for our mistake. But we never make "deals" with consumers to keep their business. Our reputation is based on being honest, knowledgable and reasonably quick. We are also known for being extremely expensive (in the short term) for service work.

Boatrookie's problem may or may not have been able to be diagnoised before anything was done. I don't know. You don't know. No one knows except the tech that either did what he was supposed to or took a guess and was wrong. And that's my point. The automatic assumption that the shop was trying to screw him was not based on anything other than a guess. I loathe that kind of attitude because I have seen it improperly directed at me occasionaly. Most engines that we see come in are "running fine, but it seems rough". That's code for:

Will not start at all.
Runs so rough my wife's boobs hit her in the face.
Hasn't been run in ten years.
Just bought it. Never run it.
Missing parts. (My favorite was the one that was missing a piston...Really...One piston out of three had been removed from the engine)

I'm not on the side of dishonest or incompetent service personal. But, I'm also not on the side of people who have unreasonable expectations about what constitutes service. Basically, here is what I would suggest people do when they take engines in for service.

1) Clean it up before you bring it in.
2) Do not tell the service writer what you think it is. Tell him what the symptoms are and a brief work history.
3) Ask how much an estimate will be.
4) When the call with the estimate comes ask how likely that the repair will fix the engine. (This is the major source of friction between consumer and shop. Consumers always assume that somehow the shop knows everything that is wrong now or will be wrong in the future. What the shop is really saying is that for the problem(s) found the repair will be $$$.
5) A: When they call and say "it's ready" ask if they found any other problem. B: When they call and say it's still "blah blah blah" ask what else could be causing the problem, why they assumed it was caused by the thing they repaired. Ask them if it's reasonable for them to hold you 100% responsible for the cost of the first repair and would they be willing to discount the cost of any additional repair and most important...Ask them how sure they are that they have correctly determind the problem this time.
6)When you pick up the engine do not wait nine months before you use it. Most shops only warranty their work 30 days. Some of us do 90 and some may even do longer, but the sooner YOU use it the sooner you will be able to sleep through the night.
7) If it runs like crap...Take it back. Explain the symptom again and allow them time to look at it and call you with an explanation.
8 Accept their explanation and start over or pick up your engine, take it to another dealer and start over. If the other dealer indicates that the first dealer was a crook or idiot...Contact them and give them a chance to make it right. If they don't...Sue them, walk around outside their dealership with a nasty sign, tell your friends and everyone you know and make sure you never spend anothe dime there again.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: problem with repair shop

Tohatsu I am not saying they are right when it comes to diagnosis, but they are and will always be right when it comes to customer service. Without the customer, you don't get to eat or pay your bills, that is where a lot of service providers get it wrong. I assure you, you need the customer more than the customer needs you. He does not "need" that boat to run, you sure well need them to come to you. That is my point. I have worked in the service industry for a long time, and I have dealt with people who have no idea what they are talking about, but they still should have a reasonable expectation of good service. Nothing about what the original poster described here is good service.

I don't blame the marine service shops for charging disproprotionatley high prices, if people will pay it, why not. $512 to rebuld carbs is ridiculous no matter how you say it. Marine techs take advantage of the "mystery" in boat repair, charging huge amounts of money for pretty much simple brainless repairs. Every time I hear that someone I know paid $150 to have their boat winterized makes me want to vomit. Even worse is when they pay it again to "summerize" the boat. Its ridiculous, but like I said, if people will pay it, why not. My sister claims to be able to spiritually communicate with lost pets and finds them for people and people pay her. Its absurd, but if people hate having their money that much, why not.

Yeah yeah, I know about overhead, but I also know about profit margins. I will admit, I do eventually want to open a shop, but I can guarantee I won't be gouging the shyte out of the customers, it just isn't ethical.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: problem with repair shop

JasonJ,

How do you get that the service shop offered less than good service? Because they fixed a problem, but maybe(and I stress maybe) they didn't fix THE problem? Good service is not about agreeing with a consumer. Good service is about doing what what people are paying for and doing it with common courtesy and in a timely manner. Lets go back and do the doctor analogy again.

If you go to a doctor and say that you have a sore throat the doctor will probably look at at, say it's a little red and hand you a bill. A week later your sore throat is white and its killing you so you go back. This time the doctor says you have strep and puts you on antibiotics. You get another bill. Did the doctor screw up the first time? It's possible, but probably not. From the doctors view point a minor sore throat didn't warrant treatment with antibiotics at first. She might have prescribed them at first and you would be singing her praises about how she new what to do...But, I can guarantee you that most doctors wouldn't have prescribed them because it's usually not necessary. In fact. you probably have some friend who would have told you that the antibiotics were not called for and accused the doctor of prescribing a drug you didn't need. Bad doctor! Good doctor! There is a huge slop factor in medicine and mechanics because it is an inexact art. Again...I'm not defending the shop. I have no idea if they were brilliant or stupid, crooked or honest. But from what Boatrookie related there is no indication that they were incompetent, crooked or offered any kind of poor service. The only fact that we have is that after charging him for a carb job his engine didn't run well. That's a terrible, costly problem for him, but not an indication of anything without further information.

And now a quick word about right and wrong.

The world is filled with black, white and shades of grey situations. Somethings are always wrong. Somethings are always right. Many things are dependent on the smallest of differences in individual circumstances. Who you are as a person is determined by what you do at any given second in time. I have known the most callous of people to do an unbelievable act of kindness without an ulterior motive. And I have seen the most moral(seemingly) of people commit acts of such barbarity as to defy belief. People do what they do for a variety of reasons so I would caution everyone to be a little less quick to render a verdict about someone's character. Too often we do not have enough knowledge to judge them.

 

[gss036]

Re: problem with repair shop

WOW! This discussion is really getting stretched out. Let me give you another take on shops. The guy(master Merc Mech)(private shop) who does some of the work on my motor and does an excellent job most of the time. The last time I had it in for service(head gasket change) he checked the lower unit and found water in it, did a pressure check and fixed the problem, which I was grateful.
I was having a little heat problem and decided to check the thermostats while adding a water pressure guage and new temp sending system. To my surprise, I was running the orginal thermostats and they were in desperate need of change, so I did them. I called the mechanic and told him what I had found and asked him why he had not checked and changed during the head gasket change ( this was the 3rd change of heads gaskets he had done for me) his response was, you did not ask me to do them. OK! I was a little frosted but did not make a big deal out of the situation. BUT! I now do my own head gaskets and most of my own maintance since I am now retired and have time to (fool around) attempt this type of work.
I guess I did this rant simple to say "LET IT GO" and move on with life. Get an estimate and if you don't like it, do it yourself or go somewhere else.

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: problem with repair shop

>They charged us the cost of the ECM and one hours labor, despite the fact that they spent countless hours testing everything. They did this because it is fair and the right thing to do.

This is where I have a problem: accepting the premise that this is fair. Fair to whom? JasonJ thinks it is fair because (s)he got a good deal. But the fact is, the cost of this repair got spread across the entire business so everyone who comes in for service is paying slightly more because a tough problem was economically unfeasible for a particular customer. Life is not fair. If you're unlucky enough to have a difficult to diagnose problem, do you expect to go around to everyone else and ask for a donation to help you out? No. But you're asking the service merchant to do it and in effect, that is exactly how the cost is being absorbed. They did everything by the book and nothing unscrupulous or negligent. Who should really foot the bill?

 

[JasonJ]

Re: problem with repair shop

Tohatsu, I do agree with what you are saying, don't get me wrong. I applaud all honest techs, and most are honest. I have just seen enough dishonesty to have the perspective I have, thats all. Heck, I have friends call me all the time asking if I think something sounds right or fair. Most of the time a quote or solution or experience they had does sound fair, and I tell them so. I also tell them when they are having the wool pulled over their eyes. Fair is fair...

Mrbigstuff, my example is how things work in a community such as mine. That dealership did lose money on our Jeep. But they also know we have friends, and our friends have friends, and the amount of work I have sent them since that event has more than made up for the money lost fixing our Jeep. Word of mouth can kill any business in my town, so our businesses do an excellent job of taking care of their own. Plus, I live in a resort area. Some of our local business do take care of the locals, while some screw the locals over, mostly the retail sector. Fortunately, most of our repair shops recognize the value in cutting us locals a break. Some joe who makes 6 figures and has two lake houses here does not need a break, but us workin' stiffs do.

I did not ask them to cut me any slack, its just called Smart Business. They have sold a few of those $40,000 trucks just because of me. Still think a few hundred bucks lost on my Jeep is a bad thing? Sorry you don't get that, its called Investing In The Business. I do it all the time in the business I work for, and it brings in more money. Your approach is counter productive, sorry....

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: problem with repair shop

I understand all that. What I have trouble with is calling it FAIR. It isn't fair. It may be the right thing for them to do as GOODWILL but it isn't fair.

Too often I hear people talking about fairness and often it is actually construed as entitlement. So it gets my dander up a bit when I see it used in that context or anything close to it. That may not be how you meant it but that's how it read.

Your case is a prime example for extending some goodwill. So far, from what I've read, I don't think the OP has, or will have, that same level of mutual understanding and consideration.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: problem with repair shop

You are right, it is not fair, but it is just business tactics, and it is done in the business world all the time. I also agree that often times entitlement and fairness gets confused. Heck, if a business want to make a tactical decision and I benefit from it without my asking, I am fine with it. If not, I am fine with that too. I don't expect free rides, but I am not going to turn down a little help. Lifes hard enough, why make it more difficult...