Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP

[EricE]

I have a 1986 Force 125hp H1251X6B. I need to replace the shaft seal but I have not been able to break free the shaft spool. (The 4 cap screws removed easily) I have threaded rod screwed into the anti-corrosion screw holes and using a harmonic puller purched on top of the propeller shaft. I have been soaking with Blaster then by Corrosion Block from the propeller side and also through the water inlets. I've used a propane torch to heat the gear case. I've used a slide hammer on the threaded rod (not too agressive) but have not been able to get it to budge. I don't see any corrosion on the top of the spool or the inside of the gear case. I just got the motor so I do not know if the seals ever have been replace before.

My questions are:

1. Can I do internal damage if i put too much down pressure on the propeller shaft since the harmonic balancer sits on top of the propeller shaft?

Would it be better to run the threaded rod through a steel bar and set the steel bar across the top of the gear case opening (one on each side of the propeller shaft) so that the force is spread across the gear case and not the top of the propeller shaft? I have been concerned about putting too much stress on the propeller shaft so I may not be applying enough force to break it free.

2. Should I have it in a specific gear (Forward, Neutral Reverse)?

3. Any Tricks or suggestions? I've read that you can put a piece between the propeller and the gear case, and screw the propeller nut to pull the shaft out. Are there any risks of potential damage using this method? Does it have to be in a specific gear.

Any an all suggestions welcome.

Thank you in advance for your time.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP





The spool,it needs to be pushed IN to remove the retainers,the retainers are half moon shaped pieces of hard metal rod.#23
You have a manual? Or at least a parts diagram?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP

The retainer clips are BETWEEN the spool and the reverse gear bearing carrier. As such they are squeezed between the two parts to ensure they stay in their groove and retain all the internals. The spool simply is pulled out after removing the four retainer bolts.

That said, between corrosion and age on the O rings, some spools are murder to pull out.

Since the forward gear is carried in a tapered roller bearing, you can no do any damage by putting too much pressure on the prop shaft. Whether or not to use a steel bar across the gearcase is your choice. I use it when I can not find my all thread tool and am in a hurry.

It is possible that you will strip out the two1/4 X 20 holes in the spool. Simply re-tap to 5/16 X 18 and use some 5/16 all threaded rod to make a puller. The holes can go all the way through the flange--it makes no difference once the anode is installed BUT--You will need to relieve the anode to fit the 5/16 bolts if you do need to re-tap.

A slide hammer will probably do no good. All thread with nuts on top of the harmonic puller will be best. Just tighten the nuts evenly and apply heat as you keep the pressure on.

You will destroy the O-rings but you are going to replace them anyway.

Yes, once you tighten the all thread, if you have the prop nut under the puller, it is possible to unscrew the prop nut and pull up on the spool. The only advantage to this is that you can use a longer wrench. Personally, I don't like it. The engine does not need to be in any particular gear to pull the spool by any method.

After removing the spool, you will need to examine the gearcase for pitting and corrosion at the point where the rear O-ring seals. If it is bad you will need to run a hone in there to get a good sealing surface. Don't get too aggressive or the O-ring will not seal anymore. Don't worry about the front O-ring. It simply seals the water chamber for cooling intake. If it leaks a little into the prop hub, no damage is done. There is plenty of suction at the pump to supply all the water the engine needs

 

[EricE]

Re: Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP

SUCCESS! Thank you for the responses. The spool actually came out rather easily. I heated up the case using 2 propane torches and just needed to apply enough force. Your advice gave me the peace of mind to tighten up on the harmonic balancer with a little more force and... pop... she came right out.

I had some problems applying enough force because I had a hard time keeping the drive bolt on the harmonic balancer straight up and down. I tried using washers as a spacer but as I screwed down, it kept shifting and tilting. I took some pictures of how I overcame this problem. The spool is already out but I hope this will help other people in the future.

The pictue below illustrates how the balancer should stay straight up and down


As I torqued down on the drive bolt, it kept on wanting to tilt off.


I screwed the prop nut back on the propeller shaft until it was flush with the top of the shaft.


I left the socket on the nut which provided a flat wide base.


I turned the hamonic balancer so the flat side would be down so I had a flat surface mating with a flat surface.


This arrangement allowed me to apply enough force to break the spool loose. When I screwed enough that it started tilting, I would back out the drive bolt until the balancer was flush again with the top of the socket, then took up the slack on the bolts on the threaded rod. In actuality I used a threaded coupler instead of a bolt since it provided about 2 inches of threaded surface.


My next step is to clean and flush the gearcase.

I now have 3 questions:


1. I need to flush out the gear housing because I ended up having to drill out the gear housing cover to get the seal out under the water pump. I was able to vacuum out most of it but I think it would be a good idea to flush it out. I was thinking using kerosene. What is a good flushing agent?

2. When I pulled the lower unit, the Crankshaft Spline Seal Retainer came out with the drive shaft. It is cup shaped. Does the Cup point up toward the power head or down toward the foot. I cannot tell by the looking at the parts diagram. I don't have a manual but I think it needs to be inserted back into the power head. Is there a trick to re-installing the retainer such as mounting it onto a long wooden dowel so I do not have to remove the powerhead.

3. On re-installing the spool, I thought that I would use a wooden dowel or threaded rod (the same size as the 4 bolts that secure the spool) as a guide to line up the bolt holes. How do the Pro's do it?

Thank you Jerry and Frank for your previous responses, they were very helpful.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP

Sorry about that,wrong info.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP

Kerosine is OK but remember that even though it is less volatile and safer than gasoline, It is still a high vapor pressure volatile liquid. Do the cleaning outdoor. Wear gloves because while I have not heard anything about Kerosine, Gasoline can be considered as a potential carcinogen. Why take chances?

The retainer goes on the shaft groove up. The rubber goes with the "flat " side in the groove and the tapered side up. It seals against the taper in the end of the crankshaft.

I just line it up by eye, but I like your idea of the 5/16 threaded rod

 

[EricE]

Re: Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP

I bought 2 long carriage bolts this morning. My original plan (and still is) was to use the bolts to help align the spool when I put it back in so that the bolt holes line up. I ended up using them to pull the bearing housing. They were a little too short so I improvised with one of my favorite and most versitile garage tools... a coat hanger. I had to use the coat hanger to make some extensions so that I could use my puller.



It came out pretty easy, but you definately cannot do it with your bare hands.



The next 3 pics are of the clutch dogs. The bottom of the pictures face the propeller. There are some small burs on the inside and outside edges which I plan on taking off but other than that I cannot tell if they need to be replaced or possibly switch them since the front dogs seam to be worn a little more.

My questions are... should I:
1. Just knock off the burrs before they fall off later and leave everything as is.

2. Switch the dogs around.

3. Replace them. They are too worn to use.

I would be interested in your opinion.

(I put yellow paper under the dogs to get a better picture of their shape)

Jerry your earlier suggestion on pushing down to remove the retaining rings was very helpful.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Propeller Shaft Spool Stuck 1986 Force 125HP

The dogs do show signs of wear but there seems to be enough flat surface for them to lock-up. The question is whether or not the dogs on the gears look the same. The clutch is a 140 dollar part and the gears are 200+ so replacing with new is really not an option.

They can be dressed and made square. HOWEVER: I have done it and had good results but on an engine that got very little use afterward. In a private message with Norton, he indicated that he had also dressed drive dogs and the repair did not last more than one season of use.

SO: I would say that if the engine does not yet pop out of gear under full throttle, just leave them be (but yeah, remove the burrs) and reassemble the lower unit, with the clutch reversed.