Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

roscoe

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Oct 30, 2002
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21,762
Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

Texasmark said:
Haven't looked at the porting lately but the last time I was in one there wasn't any exhaust crud in the intake side indicating to me that there isn't any exhaust crossover to the intake; but I may have missed something.
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Mark

Sound doesn't need to be carried on air, sound travels through it.

Like a tsunami traveling across an ocean, the water is not actually moving 80 mph, just the shock wave.

So no, you won't see any crud in the intake, but the sound wave still passes though it.

There is no air flowing out of my stereo system, but the sound still gets to me, even if the wind is blowing toward the speakers.
 

Texasmark

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Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

Well, I hope this has been as educational for others as it has for me. Sounds like this 4 cycle(stroke) OB engine thing could really be a nightmare if things get out of whack $$$$$$$$.

I guess rodbolt's mention of 50 years of reliable technology has to do with OHC automotive engines, but I'd bet they didn't have all the fancy whistles and bells of today's marine engines......but what do I know? Surely nothing about this history lesson.

I think I'll stay with 2 cycles for the time being.

Thanks a lot folks for taking the time to explain this. Besides it was a good review for you, wasn't it?

Roscoe, agree with you on sound traveling through air and the more dense the medium, the farther it travels....like dropping your pliers in the bottom of an alum boat and scaring fish; or snorkeling and a spinning propeller goes by and you think it's right on top of you and isn't. :love:

Mark
 

rodbolt

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Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

actually you will see crud under the intake valve and even in the intake olenum, the more valve overlap the more crud.
and sound waves play a very large part in exhaust tuning.
me and a buddy years ago were playing with AR baffles welded in the header tubes long before they were commercially availible.
the adjustable rocker kit for the 455 olds sold by compitition cams was my idea, I told comp cams what I was doing and sent them a sample and 2 years later they had a slick kit on the market that requires no machine work and is woth 20+ HP.
my version used a 2 piece fulcrum similar to the chevy and big block chevy studs.
to use the big block chevey studs requied making the original 5/16thx18 threads into 7/16th x 14.
they used a one piece fulcrum and a custom stud.
overhead cams,4 valves per cylinder and variable cam timing were around before WWII, inverted V12's with nitrous oxide were used in certain german bombers in WWII.
modern electronics made all the difference.
kinda like the rochester fuel injection of the late 50's and early sixties, if you could keep it adjusted it worked well.
try to keep it adjusted.
the old hilborn injection made lots of power, its a pain to manually prime all the cylinders with gas before each start.
so not a lot is really new, just a new method of doing it.
back in the 70's honda told chevy how to redesign the heads on the small block and gain 30 HP and 15% or more fuel economy. they were laghed at so honda did it. in the late 80's early 90's the vortec was born. surprise the heads were almost a copy of what honda did.
was a kit some years back to convert the old 350 SBC to a dual overhead cam monster.
their was also a kit to add 4 valves per cylinder to the BBC motors.
back in the day when I was the lead programmer and setup lead man in a CNC machine shop and worked part time in an automotive machine shop in the CleburneTX area we tried all sorts of stupid things.
in 1987 I almost killed a close friend street racing.
that was it for me.
I have not built another racing engine since.
his car was destroyed but he mostly walked away.
had he left the road 10ft or less sooner he would have broadsided a telephne pole at about 100 MPH. I still beat him though :):).
we hit the "finish" line and I shut down and he suffered a total brake master cylinder failure.
but I still think about trying it again. I am older now and more patient and wont street race ever again.
my ride was a 1970 W-30 442 that I bought in high school in 79.
 

rodbolt

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Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

oh and if ya really wanna see an abortion look up rotary valve motors :)
only saw one and it was a serious rubegoldberg affair but it did actually run.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

the allison was a POS always was
the rolls royce grffrin and later the melrin were some wake up motors.
I think the aussie AF flew a varient of the P51 with sidewinders until the mid 80's.
my bro inlaw was a wheel in the AF section of the smithsonian for a bit and I got to study a lot:)
was kick ares
but the allison and the griffen and merlin shared nothing othethr than the brits motors were totaly and completly superior to any thing allison ever produced.
the allison was a POS at best.
just as in DC DWJ still is full of it.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
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Messages
21,762
Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

""or snorkeling and a spinning propeller goes by and you think it's right on top of you and isn't.""

I've seen propellers from the bottom side too.
Not a good feeling when you look up and see them.
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,786
Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

Very interesting and educational sharing with us Rodbolt. Thanks.

Hear you Roscoe. Kind like the feeling when a novice is at the helm and you are in the water to start skiing.

Mark
 

swist

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
678
Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

The figures posted earlier show the Optimax to be very loud. I've heard this from a number of other sources also. But the culprit is apparently the DFI injection pump, whose design for whatever reason makes it very loud. So in this case it's not some inherent 2-stroke vs 4-stroke factor.
 

Lundman

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
142
Re: Quietness of 4 vs 2 cycles.

Also,the Optimax has a small air compressor that aids in
the fuel injection process that is to atomize the fuel charge for a more complete burn. That little compressor
may also be contributing to the Optimax noise level. That
is my guess,anyway.
 
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