really bad jet boat day

yojoslin

Cadet
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
6
I put out for another day of sturgeon fishing here in Portland (Oregon) in my 1993 North River Seahawk with a 350 Chevy powered Kodiak jet. About 1/4 mile downriver, first I start losing power. I figure it's some intake junk, so I power down. Idle's o.k., so I figure it's cleared itself out. I power back up, and it starts running real jerky - shuddering and little power. I idle it back down, turn around, and the bilge is full, water's up above floor level in the back, and smoke's coming from the engine. Before I have a chance to shut down, it stalls. I start the bilge pump (obviously), and then can't get the kicker (8hp 1995 Honda 4 stroke) to fire either. A distress call gets me two tows that land me back at the dock.<br /><br />So - what failure, or series of failures, might yield those symptoms and that much engine drama in that little time? I assume that the only place for water to enter such a boat is through some aspect of the jet, but visual inspection didn't show much. Thought about bad gas as a factor(we just had three weeks of snow and ice, so the boat was sitting for awhile, though I put in a full tank of fresh gas the day after Christmas), because of the rough running. <br /><br />Any input, prior to shope delivery and preparing for the big repair check, would be appreciated.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,291
Re: really bad jet boat day

It would seem that the Pump is to Blame....<br /><br />Worst Case scenrio,<br />Crate motor.. $1500.<br />New Pump..... $3/4000.<br /><br />You might be able to save the motor... pull the plugs,+ get the water out of it.....<br />The Kodiak jet is a Hamlton style pump isn't it ??
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: really bad jet boat day

Two engines die? What's the common denominator here?<br /><br />Everyone knows that Hondas NEVER fail. (smart aleck remark intended)<br /><br />I'd be looking at fuel.
 

Walt T

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
1,369
Re: really bad jet boat day

Probably blew a cooling hose and filled up the boat. Get any water out of the engine asap, it'll probably be okay unless it ingested water and hydrolocked.
 

yojoslin

Cadet
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
6
Re: really bad jet boat day

Thanks for sharing my pain. Yeah, it's a Hamilton-style 3 stage.<br /><br />I'm hoping for no ingested h2o. We just had an ice storm that brought a bunch of dock covers down on boats, so mine's parked in line at the shop with at least a couple of weeks before they can even look at it. If there is water in there, will it sitting there do further harm?<br /><br />I believe the cooling's all internal (y'know, cycling anti-freeze), so I'm not sure that would be it.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,291
Re: really bad jet boat day

If there is water in there, will it sitting there do further harm?
If you suffered Reversion, I'd Pull the plugs Right Away..... You'll be Rusting the Cylinder Walls in a couple of weeks......<br />Pull the plugs... Turn it over to purge the water, Then oil the cylinders till the Mechanics can get to it....... <br />It takes Very Little Rust to Destroy the Rings....
 

Forktail

Ensign
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Messages
977
Re: really bad jet boat day

Is there a reason why my 1-19 post was deleted here?
 

yojoslin

Cadet
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
6
Re: really bad jet boat day

Forktail - this is my first posting. Initially, I placed it in the wrong forum - general instead of repair. I think you may have responded to the other one while I was in the process of deleting it after placing it here. Sorry about that.
 

navigator336

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
270
Re: really bad jet boat day

I'm not very familiar with Hamilton jets other than their history (invented by a New Zealand sheep rancher named Hamilton, who's long narrow ranch was bisected by a river and who wanted to travel the shallow river to tend his flocks. Took apart an old washing machine and used the pump parts to create the first boat jet pump). I am familiar with Berkeley jets. It sounds as if you have a closed cooling system. If so, the raw cooling water, if like a Berkeley, is supplied by the jet pump itself. Shy of a pump housing failure, a total failure of the shaft packing or a major hull failure, the bilge water is likely coming from the hose that feeds from the pump to the heat exchanger (again assuming a closed cooling system and that Hamiltons and Berkeleys are similar in cooling water delivery). It might also have occured in your exhaust system.<br /><br />Was the engine over heating? Was it smoke or steam coming from the engine? Over heating would be a sign that the raw water feed line failed. I doubt you sucked anything up into the pump as that will not generally effect engine performance, only boat speed and vibration. Was the Honda kicker not running a coincidence? Maybe take it off the boat and try running it off a separate tank of gas. I'd definitely check the engine for water intrusion ( pull a plug, turn it over a couple of times, check the oil)although my guess is it doesn't have any, especially considering the motor probably sits pretty high in your boat. After you got the last tank of gas, did the boat run O.K.?
 

Walt T

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
1,369
Re: really bad jet boat day

It will start rusting within a few hours. You need to get any water out now.
 

akriverrat

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
588
Re: really bad jet boat day

shaft on kodiak uses ceramic seal,not packing. can't fill bilge with the coolant from closed side. float the boat water can get in from shaft seal-would suck air into pump at above idle.sucking air about same effect as junk in grate-no go and overspeeding engine. transom seal-wouldn't affect pump. pump housing/hull gasket-after sucking bilge dry would suck air into pump. hose from pump to exchanger plugged or broken. first would overheat engine, second overheat and flood boat. leaking cooler end caps same as broken hose. cooler discharge hoses would flood boat.all of these lack of raw water flow would be with smoke from overheated exhaust manifold/s and exhaust hose/s. losing exhaust hose floods boat with a lot more exhjaust noise. oh yeah-inspection cover loose- flood and/or suck air. plugged grate, then overheat and failure of hose from hot exhaust most likely. FORGOT...you guys had some really cold weather...exhaust manifolds easily cracked by freezing. crack to the inside=rough running, outside=flood the boat with lots of steam. these cracks can open suddenly long after the freeze started them. that is why i am putting new manifolds on mine this winter. cracks are most likely just above 7 and 8 exhaust ports.
 

yojoslin

Cadet
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
6
Re: really bad jet boat day

I've taken the boat to another shop (Kodiak authorized repair) who'll be diving into it immediately. I appreciate the prompts and advice. I'll write back on the results.
 

yojoslin

Cadet
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
6
Re: really bad jet boat day

Well, Dieselwalt's closest.<br /><br />Post-Christmas we had a rare multi-day freeze. Today, putting the boat in the water and running it (after having the motor checked out), water started sheeting out of a crack on the underside of one of the pump manifolds. Pretty obvious now why the boat filled with water as quick as it did. A relatively easy repair, and not too costly but for the manifold cover. Next investment is gonna be an automatic bilge pump. <br /><br />I'll be a lot more attentive to draining the system in future cold weather (each manifold has a simple drain valve built in, just never needed to worry about it before).<br /><br />The Honda was a purely coincidental problem - collapsed fuel line.<br /><br />Thanks for the advice - definitely pushed me to get it in the shop quicker, which could've been a big help, had the problem been worse. In fact, these manifolds can split in a way that results in water finding its way into the engine - I lucked out.
 

Walt T

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
1,369
Re: really bad jet boat day

You got lucky, could have been much worse. Keep an eye on your oil, make sure no water is getting in it.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,291
Re: really bad jet boat day

Glad to hear it worked out OK.....<br />I'm going to be using the Kodiak exhaust manifolds on the motor/boat I'm building now....<br />They Seems to be Real Quality pieces....<br />Good Luck...
 

akriverrat

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
588
Re: really bad jet boat day

bondo, don't tell gvp on the "other" forum. he is death on aluminum exhaust manifolds. yojoslin, i am a bit confused. normally am. what/where is the "pump manifold"?
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,291
Re: really bad jet boat day

akriverrat,<br />I Rarely Ever go over there anymore....<br />I realize that Geo is trying to make living from there,+ Deleting My posts, when I offered Info on other products better suited to the task in question is, I Guess Acceptable.........<br />But, Totally Changing My posts to Say Something Totally Different, I find Unacceptable......<br />I'm Pretty Sure Geo was Glad to see me Leave....<br />Thou, in the last week, when things got slow here I did pop over,+ post..... That was in the 2bbl to 4bbl conversion thread.. Only to tell Geo that's he's Wrong.... No Difference in the Cams....<br />He's a Knowledgable man, but he's Not Always Right....<br />'Course, Neither am I.....
 

Walt T

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
1,369
Re: really bad jet boat day

That isnt George. That's Les Hall who changes posts. He is a very small person. I used to answer questions there, but he deletes anything with my e mail domain on it. Oh well, it's his little kingdom. He gets to do as he sees fit.
 

akriverrat

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
588
Re: really bad jet boat day

bondo,i enjoy both sites. i seldom disagree with you or gvp. i've found you to be more open to learning something new. i seldom contribute to the other because gvp answers all and doesn't welcome differing oponions. kodiak seems to have switched to real paint on their parts. they used to use powdercoat that actually made corrosion worse in salt. Yojoslin, i own and have several friends that have hamilton and kodiak pumps and/or engines. running primarily in saltwater, having no shops around that work on them, and being cheap, i am much more familiar with their innards than i wanted to be when i bought mine. i am sure you are just calling the "pump manifold" a different name than i am. i think that between all the different sleds i've worked on that i have seen most failure modes but want to be aware of any i haven't seen yet just in case. so i am hoping you will clarify "pump manifold".[location, function, description?]
 

bluewater19

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
505
Re: really bad jet boat day

Sorry if I ask a dumb question but what is the name of this "other" forum?
 
Top