rebuilding force tilt/trim

RRitt

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Please help me optimize this document on rebuilding force tilt/trim systems.<br /><br />I recently rebuilt both of my assemblies. Unfortunately, getting ALL of the seals meant buying many hundreds of o-rings just to get seven or eight that mercury doesn't offer. So I'm dumping the excess on ebay and want to type up a small guide for buyers. What follows is the first draft. Please offer any advice, suggestions, and other issues that you think should be dealt with. If anything is confusing please assist by letting me know. Thanks in advance.<br /><br />******************************************<br />******************************************<br /><br />Purpose of this document:<br /> You should have a shop manual and refer to it as your primary guide. This set of instructions is not intended to replace a shop manual. This set of instructions is intended to assist you by dealing with issues not normally covered in a shop manual. <br /><br />Overview: <br /> Rebuilding your power trim and tilt system is usually a matter of disassembling, removing old seals, cleaning, installing new seals, and reassembling. The use of brake hones to smooth the surfaces is recommended but not usually required. During the process of rebuilding take care not to distort or scratch the internal cylinder walls. Before and during reassembly take care to keep all internal parts clean and free from dirt, dust, lint, or other debris. Apply a thin coat of marine trailer grease or vaseline to lubricate parts prior to assembly. Use automatic transmission fluid or non-detergent motor oil as your hydraulic fluid.<br /><br />The pump motor and valve:<br /> It is doubtful that either of these is bad. In normal application the pump motor will last 10-20 times longer than your outboard engine. The valve is constructed with ball bearings and springs and should outlast the motor. A simple cleaning and flushing is usually more than adequate. Taking the valve body apart is usually a mistake. However, the motor has steel components and may shown signs of rust. If the inside of your pump motor has rust then it should be cleaned. If you suspect internal rust, then you should remove the four screws securing the valve body and turn the motor shaft by hand. It should turn smoothly. If it has any grinding or makes noises like there is sand on the inside then you should disassemble, clean, and treat the motor by removing the two top screws. Before disassembilng make alignment marks between the brush cover and collar. When reassembling the motor use a fine strand of wire to hold the brushes in place while you place the armature into the cap. While holding the armature steady with one hand lower the collar into place.<br /><br />Common problems:<br /> Wherever stainless steel and aluminum come into contact there will probably be corrosion. Two dissimilar metals will act like a battery. Exposure to salt water or acid will accelerate the process. The softer metal will corrode more rapidly and the harder metal less rapidly than normal (this is the purpose of your zinc anode). The hydraulic lines and shafts of your trim system are made of stainless steel and it is not uncommon for them to be seized into place. The stainless components are easily replaced whereas the aluminum components are not. Take care not to damage or distort your aluminum components. If you are forced to cut or damage a component, then be sure to cut or damage the stainless components only.<br /><br />General procedure for working with seized components:<br />Heat and PB-Blaster penetrating oil. Use a propane torch to heat the threaded component. As it expands into the hole it will push and crack the corrosion. As it cools off the penetrating oil can work its way further into the thread. Tighten and loosen the bolt to help the oil work its way further into the thread. Repeat as many times as your patience will allow. The local hardware store should carry tri-flame torches and map gas canisters. Both can deliver significantly more heat than a standard propane torch. Take care not to distort or melt any of you aluminum parts.<br /><br />Hydraulic lines:<br />When working with hydraulic lines there are two red lines that you do not want to cross. Do not, under any circumstance, damage the aluminum (female) threads of any hydraulic joint. Do not round off the flare nuts. If your any of your hydraulic fittings are seized and you can not work them free then simply cut the tube as close to the fitting as possible. Then use a six sided socket to remove the fitting. Force will charge you $35 to $40 per replacement SS hydraulic line. You can get the same or better from the automotive inustry for about half the price. Save your old tube to use as a bending reference in the future. Replace damaged tubes with stainless or kunifer tubing of either 3/16 or 1/4” diameter. I prefer kunifer as it will result in less system corrosion than stainless. The tube lengths are 2 @ 18”, 1@15”, and 1@ 12”. The fittings should be stainless steel. They fitting type is the same as used on an automobile - male inverted flare nuts with 3/8-24 thread. Have a professional make the tubes to your length with a double flare connection. Summit Racing has a website where you can buy the flare nuts.<br /><br />Shock bushings:<br />The force shock bushings have an aluminum collar that commonly seizes to the stainless shaft. Sacrifice the bushing before causing damage to your tilt/shock shaft or cylinder. If neccesary, use a drill or roto-tool to turn the rubber into swiss cheese. Do not try to force the shock-eye past the end of a sezied bushing or bushing shaft. <br />Force will charge you $28ea for replacement bushings. You can also use an energy suspension #98116 polyester shock eye bushing ($5 per pair) or a pair of nylon sleeve bushings. Use a serated knife to cut the polyester bushing to proper length. Install it into the shock-eye and then use a drill to make the hole clean at 9/16”. You will need a drill press to make the nylon bushings.<br /><br />Trim mounting shaft:<br />This is probably the worst problem that you can encounter. There is a lot of aluminum in contact with a lot of stainless. In some cases it even becomes neccessary to remove the engine. If you have to sacrifice a part then make it the stainless mounting shaft. You can replace it with a 5/8” aluminum shaft for under $20 and less future corrosion. In the meantime heat the shaft, spray pb-blaster, let it cool, tap it with a punch, and repeat 20 times.<br /><br />Trim cylinder cover:<br />Cut the bolts, remove the cover, remove the cylinder sleeve, use heat, and replace with socket head bolts. Avoid damaging the threads in the cylinder body and under no circumstance bend or distort the cylinder sleeve.
 

Kajun37

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Feb 17, 2006
Messages
348
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

i would like one of these complete kits ..whats ya price?..i have a 1990 120 force
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
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Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,763
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

How about a buy it now price.<br />People that want to fix something, don't want to wait.
 

RRitt

Captain
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Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

roscoe, the problem is that I don't know what they are worth. To use "buy it now" I would need to have some idea. <br /><br />as a side caveat - something I learned during this process. Double sealing quad rings kick some serious butt. I like to put in new top seals whenever I do an impeller. This year I used 3/32" quad rings from place where I got all the other o-rings (msmaster-carr). Wow. Definitely worth the extra money. <br />AS568A-151 for shift lever<br />AS568A-139 for bearing cage
 

Kajun37

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Feb 17, 2006
Messages
348
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

it sold for $12 plus $5 shipping...can i buy a kit from ya? i'd rather not wait for another auction....i missed the ending on this one:(
 

RRitt

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Mar 30, 2006
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3,319
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

yes. without the bolts i think $10 including shipping is fair. I'm not too happy with $12 including the bolts. I'd just as soon throw away the o-rings than have to buy more of these oddball screws and bolts ... then sell the whole thing for $12. next auction will be o-rings only ... no bolts ... no throwing good money after bad.
 

Kajun37

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Feb 17, 2006
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348
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

how much do you want for the bolts included?whats your email address?
 

RRitt

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Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

I don't know about with bolts because I don't know how best to ship. I'll know after I ship the first ebay auction. If it's under 1lb then I can put it in my home mailbox and send USPS priority. If not, then there is a trip to post office which I wouldn't even want to do on a regular basis for any reasonable amount of money. <br />At which case, shipping is UPS from work ($7ish with 4-5 day delivery time) or fedex 2day from work ($12ish).<br /><br />The bolts themselves cost just under a buck each and there are seven ... five for the trim cylinder and two for the motor collar. So I'm unhappy with $12 because it puts me at risk of either losing additional money due to shipping costs or losing an hour of time at the post office. Either way the risk is to throw good assets after bad. I am inherently risk aversive. I'll know in a few days when I go to post office and ship the ebay auction. If it's something I can mail from home, then $17 with shippng is cool. If not, then not.<br /><br />netsvc@swfla.rr.com
 

Kajun37

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Feb 17, 2006
Messages
348
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

ok cool just let me know...
 

RRitt

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Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

kajun,<br /><br />the two bolts for top of brush housing don't work very well. I wouldn't use them on my boat. Two peices of SS threaded rod (10/24 x 5") works better. So the bolts end up being just five of 1/4-20 socket heads for the trim cylinder.<br /><br />talked to post office and can ship from home but need more postage. $10 just orings and $16 o-ring plus bolt.
 

D_Hickman

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Aug 2, 2011
Messages
9
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

Gentlemen - Quick question, I am replacing the brushes on my tilt trim motor on 85hp Force after getting stranded on the boat ramp. Will turning the armature by hand raise and lower the engine? Is there a manual way to raise engine in event of failure in the future? - Thanks!
 

RRitt

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Mar 30, 2006
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Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

pressure will often push armature out of gears but otherwise turning armature with electric drill works. be careful not to damage the armature. Speaking of which, before you go out and buy brushes inspect your armature where it goes into the oil reservoir. if it is pitted then save your time and buy a new motor.
 

D_Hickman

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Aug 2, 2011
Messages
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Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

RRitt - Thanks! I raised the motor with the drill and it worked very easily. I already ordered the brush and spring set. The shaft on the armature looks very clean with no burs or pitting. My only concern is the copper sections on the top of the armature that rotates inside the brushes. There are a couple of chips out of the copper that appears to have been chipped away when the brushes disintegrated. The whole thing could have been prevented with a little preventive maintenance, ie. replacing the brushes before they were completely destroyed.

Is it possible to purchase just the armature and inner part of the motor wihtout buying a completely new housing and reservoir. The motor appears to be in great shape other than the two small chips out of the copper section.

Should I lube the motor with anything when reassembling? I beleive I read one of your other posts that recommended lubing with vaseline or trailer grease.
 

RRitt

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Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

RRitt - Thanks! I raised the motor with the drill and it worked very easily. I already ordered the brush and spring set. The shaft on the armature looks very clean with no burs or pitting. My only concern is the copper sections on the top of the armature that rotates inside the brushes. There are a couple of chips out of the copper that appears to have been chipped away when the brushes disintegrated. The whole thing could have been prevented with a little preventive maintenance, ie. replacing the brushes before they were completely destroyed.

Is it possible to purchase just the armature and inner part of the motor wihtout buying a completely new housing and reservoir. The motor appears to be in great shape other than the two small chips out of the copper section.

Should I lube the motor with anything when reassembling? I beleive I read one of your other posts that recommended lubing with vaseline or trailer grease.

Do not apply any lubricants, penetrants, or sealants to motor. the motor bearings are self lubricating oilite (bronze with vacum impregnated oil). You can take a 50 year old oilite bearing and hit with propane and it still has plenty of oil left to bubble out. The brushes are carbon/copper and have an impregnated graphite lubricant (i think it graphite). Any oils or stuff may weaken the glues and cause damage. inside of motor should be spotless and dry before assembly. If you want to undertake any treatments then paint it. if there is any rust then maybe even bead blast it, dip it in phosphoric acid, wipe it with conversion coat (like ospho), prime (duplicolor self-etch is a very nice primer with great adhesion), then paint with enamel or epoxy. keep the paint thin - all you want is protection from humidity. always, always, always use new seal gaskets and new sealing washers. The grommet is reusable if you take great care not to damage or knick it and add a nylon washer underneath the cable nut.

if you can not polish out the knicks in your armature then your motor will not last as long.

I
 

indianmtn

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Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
4
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

New to this forum my 86 force 125 is also slowly falls down sitting in my garage the boat is a a new purchase but i am mechancial inclined and will try to fix myself. Seems you are the expert from all i have read. I was going to try the lawn mower parts fix the question i have is once the lower body c clips are removed can you run the pump with lines connected to push end caps and pistons out? Or i thought i read put in temp brass plugs then run pump. If the second is the best method what size brass plugs did you call out.

Thanks
Keith
 

RRitt

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Mar 30, 2006
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3,319
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

i don't think running it with lines connected is a good idea. You should have the pump assembly (motor + valve body) completely off the boat and disconnected before you even start. Go to NAPA and buy some 3/16" inverted flare fitting plugs (standard brake fitting). plug up all four ports and then run pump in an old coffee can. the plugs should come flying out.
 

indianmtn

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Aug 9, 2011
Messages
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Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

I did remove the unit as a hole which involved the removal of 3 bolts and all 4 lines, then i removed both c clips reinstalled all 4 lines, installed a trash liner over the enitre assembley, ran pump and this pushed out the 3 pieces (2) piston assemblies and the shuttle piece. replaced the orings only thinking i had different setup reinstalled everything only to realize that my outdrive still is dropping but at a much slower rate plenty of fluid goes up and down with ease.

Just realized re-looking at the pictures from the tilt/trim images in this forum that i needed to separate the bullet pieces (piston) i now understand this is a 4 piece unit front, back, spring and valve the Briggs & Stratton needle valve o ring goes inside the bullet looking pistons so now its time to tear down again try to separate each unit. What confused me was there was not a picture of the one piece assembly (starting point with the rubber o rings installed the picture show the 4 pieces layed out) it will be back apart tonight i am sure in half the time for round 2.
 
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indianmtn

Recruit
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Aug 9, 2011
Messages
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Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

Put in the briggs and stratton needle valve gaskets part number 398188 (2 required) in the control valve pistons mine opened up with a pair of channel locks and regular pliers no scaring used a rag under the plier faces and installed new rubber o rings from ACE Hardware part numbers J19904 and J10008 and no more bleed off outboard engine works great.

Thanks RRitt and the guy for putting up the images for all the help total cost of repair with new fluid around $25 I purchased a repro valve body for $140 on ebay and they take back returns if unopened so i got off pretty cheap.
 

D_Hickman

Cadet
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
9
Re: rebuilding force tilt/trim

Rritt - I followed your advice and ordered a new motor for the tilt trim unit. Boat shop did not have the O-ring that goes between the motor assembly and the pump. Would you happen to know where I can get one, or a replacement that is acceptable? Thanks for the help and I am sure that many people appreciate your advice and willingness to share your knowledge.
 
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