Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

[Cofe]

Does anyone here use a reverse osmosis drinking water system in your home? I am debating putting one in my house, and was wondering what the pro's and con's are about this system?
Also what kind of life should I expect to get out of the filters, and the membrane?

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

I'm planning on getting one for my house this coming fall. I am sold on them for how effective they have been in our restaurants. Before we installed them, I was having to de-lime our coffee brewers very frequently. I do the service on 40 brewers between the stores that I service. Prior to, I would have on average 2 a week. Now I'm lucky to get 1 a month and then it is only for a mechanical failure verses being clogged with lime. I feel they seem to do a better job over a typical water softner. At least you don't have the added expense of salt for the brine water. Good luck......SS

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Filter and membrane life are dependant on the purity of the incoming water. If you've got hard water to start with then it's probably best to use a water softener first to get rid of the majority of the impurities. The impurities are generally minerals like lime and iron.

The filters will only filter solids that are not dissolved in the water. If the particles are dissolved solids (typical components of hard water) then everything has to be removed by the RO membrane. The frustrating answer to your question is - it depends!

Other impurities like sulfer or high iron content will degrade the RO membrane rather rapidly and may not be totally removed anyway. If you've got "rotten egg" smelling water then you will need to address that prior to the RO.

I know the answer sounds like a runaround but you really can't tell how long the filters and membranes will last or if they'll even do the job you want until you get the watrer tested.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

We use a few at work, in the labs.

I was going to get one for home, but researched and found that the units under a grand, are not worth the money.

If you can, only hook it up to the faucets that are used for drinking and cooking. That will save on your water bill and the life of the filters and membrane.

I went with :
A 2 filter sediment filter on the whole house.

And a 2 filter DuPont drinking water setup in the kitchen.

http://www2.dupont.com/Water_Filtration/en_US/products/drinking_water_filters_prod_page.html

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Cofe, I hope you don't mind me replying, I was watching this with a little interest myself.

SS, great to hear a true success story.

Pirate no need to apologize for your post. It's very informative.

Roscoe, thanks for yours as well.

I will have to review my water company's "Water Quality Report" and see if this is a good idea for me around here. Or if th water they RO at WalMart could really be any good.

Cofe thanks for starting this post, too!

 

[Cofe]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Thanks for everyone's replies thus far!
I am learning about RO systems, and have found a good website to help choose a proper water filter system. http://www.reverse-osmosis-water-filter-guide.com

What started me looking into this system was one of my buddies has one in his house for drinking water. His ice maker is also connected to the RO unit. While visiting with them, I noticed how clear the ice was in the tea he offered me. Then he started talking about his RO system, and what it does.

If I get a RO system, it will only have a drinking water faucet, and a connection for the ice maker. Whole house RO filtration would be cost prohibitive. I have learned that for every gallon of RO water, there would be 5 gallons of waste water generated. I am considering piping the waste water outside to a container, for flower/garden watering.

RO Technology has vastly improved lately, and I believe worth exploring.

Any input on this subject is appreciated.

 

[mciaio]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

I have a Home Depot/Lowes version under my sink. It is a 24 gallon per day unit with a 2 gallon storage tank. The only purified water is the one that comes out of the spout on the sink. We use it for drinking, cooking, fish tank and beer brewing.

We have a lot of fertilizer run-off in our water and that was bringing the nitrate levels almost to the federal limit. That is horrible for babies and fish. The only thing that takes out nitrates is RO. My saltwater fish tank only uses RO water now.

The unit I have has 2 carbon filters and a membrane. The membrane is said to last three years and the carbon filters are about 6 months. I asked my wife the other day if she would ever live without one and she said no, and neither will I.

One other drawback is that it takes 5 gallons of tap water to make 1 gallon of RO water with my unit. 4 gallons down the drain, but I haven't noticed any appreciable increase in my water bill.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Whatever you decide to get, look for a NSF certification sticker. That will give you some assurance that the manufacturer meets a set of standards. It's no guarantee but at least a start. Keep in mind that the RO (reverse osmosis) membrane is a part of a system. The prefilters, storage tank, and post filters (usually carbon, sometimes called a "sweetener cartridge"), and final delivery system (hoses and connections) are all important parts of the system and contribute to the quality of the final product.

It's just as important to determine what you're trying to accomplish. A sediment filter followed by a carbon filter may be enough to solve your problems and at a lot lower cost than an RO system.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

A lot of ground has been covered here, much of it good. I totally disagree with a statement made about units under a grand are worthless.

What you are looking at are refered to as POU (point of use) RO's. They are different than commercial sized RO's as the membranes are made to operate at lower water pressure (street pressure) than the booster pump commercial units. It is true that the commercial units are capable of better quality water in more demanding circumstances than the typical homeowner is liable to face.

That being said, the RO membrane (as mentioned above) removes dissolved solids. It is not a filter and must be protected from suspended solids as well as from chlorine. It removes disolved solids as a percentage of the original total. Even the low pressure POU units will remove 90+ percent of dissolved solids.

As far as NSF rating, that's a hype. Membranes for all units are made by a very few manufactures and they all work the same. It is only the manufacturers that pony up to the fees that get the ratings. Many of them do, however.

Most commercially produced bottled water is made from municipal feed stock that is run thru a carbon filter, then an RO, then poured into bottles with a blast of Ozone.

I highly recommend a POU unit for the home but you must be diligent about changing the filters. Also, monitered (and I don't just mean filter change lites) do not work well in water below 150 ppm Total Dissolved Solids. Under most circumstances membranes last for years.

I am on chlorinated deep well municipal water that is softened, has no iron or hydrogen sulphide and has 135 PPM TDS. I am still using the same membrane that came with my unit in 1989.

Do not buy one with proprietary filters. Do not buy one with umpteen filters either.
You need a unit that has one industry standard pre-filter housing, one industry standard post filter housing and one membrane with the output of your choice. That is it!!! The rest are expensive gimmicks to maintain.

Oh, and as pirate said, you can often get a big bang for your buck, taste wise, with simple filtration but using technical measurements NO forms of filtration alone will (again, technically measuring) do much for 'water quality'!

I define that as getting as close to the root H2O molecule as is reasonably practical. And that is where RO comes in.

Disclaimer: All bets are off if any of your issues are any form of bacteria contamination.

 

[bryan01601]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

One thing I did not see brought up is that for every Gallon of finished RO water you get you will need 10+gallons or more depending on how pure it is. The other 9+ gallons go down the drain as waste water.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

One thing I did not see brought up is that for every Gallon of finished RO water you get you will need 10+gallons or more depending on how pure it is. The other 9+ gallons go down the drain as waste water.

The accepted ratio is 1 gallon of product to 3-4 gallons of waste. For the amount of water you consume in the home, it is a small price to pay.

 

[DJ]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Cofe,

I've had two systems over the last 12 years. Living in Phoenix, AZ, one needs it. We have/had both the R.O. and a soft water treatment. The tap water is safe but tastes like mud.

R.O. systems remove EVERYTHING from water. That is not necessarily healthy. We always put a bit of fresh lemon in the R.O. water to balance the PH. Much healthier.

I've had two systems, as I stated. The two systems were/are: EcoWater and Kinnetico.

By far, the Kinnectico system is better. The Kinnetico system is just a higher quality product. Plus, the Kinnetico system is 100% mechanical-no electricity needed and no computer boards to fail. The price is higher too. Worth it, IMHO.

As stated above, there is a lot of truth in what goes in (water quality) will make a huge difference in membrane life. Since our water, coming in, is already treated (softened) our membrane life is basically-forever.

Our system requires filter changes about twice a year. That service, which I do myself, takes about $90.00 worth of filters. you may get by with a once/year service. In the desert, we drink A LOT of water.

Hope that helps.

 

[mike243]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

ok i was a sears service tec for 9 years & have worked on all sorts of water filters ,rvo ect.most refridge ice makers require 30lbs of pressure to help shut the water valves & fill the correct amount of water ,you might get by with the 20lbs that most rvo systems put out but at some point & time your icemaker will quit,fill tubes frezze up from to little of water,motor modules break gears,all kinds of problems to get clear ice,a under counter ice machine with a plate & grid cutter made by whirlpool makes clear ice due to minerals stick to the plate rather than binding with the water,most of the newer fridges have a dual valve set up or a 3 way valve to run the water thru a onboard water filter.price filters & a membrane before you put 1 in & see if it is economical to pay for a membrane once a year.if i wanted cleaner water i would go with a water softner ,1 thing to keep in mind,all water equipment has a certain order in which they need to be followed.on well water a sediment filter will be the first thing then depending on what else your needs are are listed in all the paper work.a good water sample is needed to properly tell you what needs to be done in order to save $,a prefilter can save a lot of $ on repairs on any type icemaker or water treatment equipment,i have been blessed out more than once due to the price of repairs & the system set up had not been followed,the on demand water filters work well & cut the salt use way down from the older systems,good luck on your choices,mike243

 

[dolluper]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Diffently your system will last according to whats in your water supply...we took the system out of our home and stuck it in at the lake ...home has city water now.....membrane is 12 +years old and the filters have lasted approx 3 months before replacement ....but your water supply may vary

 

[mscher]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

I was considering a filter, but all of this talk has made me crazy!

Need some ideas for my system.

We now have well water with a lot of iron. We use a softener for the iron, which seems to do a pretty good job. We have a fridge water filter, that uses unsoftened water. It has always ran slow and goes through filters quickly, since we drink a lot of water.

I'm thinking of installing a additional filtered faucet at the kitchen sink, for cofee, etc. Whatever filter I use, would also like to tap a line to the fridge.

Would this filter setup work best with softened water, or straight well water?

Reverse osmosis or charcoal?

 

[Cofe]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Mscher from what I have been learning, a RO unit supplied with water from the softener would be good. The pre-filters would last a lot longer.
Most three stage units have a sediment filter, a charcoal filter, and then the membrane. If you piped RO water to your fridge, you wouldn't need the fridge filter.
As of now I am pricing units, and comparing their features. I will post something once I get my mind made up.

 

[mike64]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Lot of good replies here...I don't have too much new to add, but I'll give my personal experience with our RO system-- it's a Whirlpool WHER-18 that came with the house we moved into 4 years ago. I don't know how much it cost but I don't think it's one of the pricier models. There's also 2 whole house sediment filters and a water softener. Even with all that, the water from the tap is high in iron and sulfur, so the RO system is nice to have. It's always worked perfectly, and the water seems to be pretty close to pure H2O-- no taste at all. Now drinking city water is like taking a drink of over-chlorinated pool water

Maintenance: I change all three filters every 6 months (there's a light that goes from green to red when it's time), but reading the other replies, sounds like I only need to change the charcoal filters that often. Which is good to know since the RO filter is kind of pricey ($50) and needs to be special-ordered. The charcoal filters are around $30/pair. When changing filters, I also sanitize the system with a little bleach and water run through without the filters in. The whole sanitize and filter-change process is a little bit of a chore, but not too bad. I also have to watch the waste water runoff tube and keep it clear, because it will eventually clog with sludge and water will run out an "escape hole" and get all over the counter and under the sink.

all in all, it's well worth having as far as I'm concerned.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

mscher - if you've got a problem with iron and the softener isn't getting it all, then you may need an additional unit for iron removal. It's been quite a few years so I don't remember if it's a cation or anion bed but recall it needs a permanganate back flush. It's really a good idea to get the whole house dissolved solids down to minimize corrosion. If you have a rotten egg smell it can be iron or sulfer (or a little of both) but you need to get it tested to determine which it is and the concentration. If it's sulfer and the content is high, then the remediation costs go up as you may need a chlorination and precipitation tank.

If you're going through filters rapidly and you're softening the water, then you might have someone come out and se if the system is doing what it's supposed to be doing. The resin bed acts as a particulate filter for solids as well as an ion exchange for dissolved solids. If you've got solids coming through then the resin could be depleted.

If you've got this type of problem then someone that lives nearby should have something similar. Hopefully you've got some reputable water treatment people to help out.

 

[4JawChuck]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Much of the medical equipment I service is equipped with filtration systems that use hundreds of gallons of water per hour, this water must be clean enough to process medical devices after disinfection and be rinsed after chemical sterilization without contamination.

We use a combination of 5 micron, 1 micron and 0.2 micron filters in series using available everywhere potable water. The housings to hold them are inexpensive and the filter costs are reasonable, considering how much water a normal household would use per year I estimate you could run for a year easily between filter changes and much of the time you only need to change out the 5 and 1 micron filters which get the lions share of the particulates to restore full flow.

http://www.bigbrandwater.com/ultrapleat.html

Filter costs are around $100USD for this type of system to supply drinking water to a family of four for a year. If your water has a large degree of TDS a 10 micron pre-filter is a good idea but unless you were pulling water from a mud river its unnecessary. If your water is hard then you need a water softener to precipitate the minerals prior to filtration, BTW softened water is hard on RO filters which raises the costs since you can't eliminate the first shot of salt after regeneration. Softened water will eliminate most scale issues if your producing coffee or need to generate steam by boiling.

Filters don't restrict water flow nearly as much as RO systems with none of the wastage issue and you don't need to pump water at high pressure to get high volumes. I can't envision a situation where you need cleaner water than that unless your running a lab where Pure/WFI water is required and then you would need a still.

I install/repair those too.
http://www.steris.com/products/view.cfm?id=2004

I think people get carried away with the many types of systems available on the market and are confused by the designations. RO is for large facilities where the water is stored for later use or you need to produce DI water, its output pressure is too low for on-demand use in most situations.

0.2 micron filtration is cheap and easily installed with minimum space requirements and needs no high pressure to operate at large volumes and is ideal for on-demand use with no wastage. If you wanted to improve taste a simple carbon filter placed before the 1 micron filter and after the 5 micron filter will do that for you. Don't get carried away, a simple 3 filter+carbon setup will get you the cleanest water you will ever need...including after biological attack.

I do not recommend RO for home use unless you wanted to live on a deserted island and only had salt water available which is where RO shines in effective one pass purification/desalination.

A setup like this is all you will ever need particularly if you already have a softener, its flexible, effective and inexpensive...don't get carried away.

http://www.bigbrandwater.com/whole-house-water-filter.html

 

[mciaio]

Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

I have a sotener before my RO unit and it works well. We use the special salt that is supposed to take out iron in the water.

You can hook up your fridge to the RO unit. You would need a t-fitting off the top of the RO tank. One to the sink faucet and one to the fridge. I thought about doing it for the ice maker.