Running lights as signals?

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UncleWillie

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Re: Running lights as signals?

... then explain why the lights go from dim to bright and back and not off to bright and back when the turn signals are on while the running lights are on.
Also, quit it with the piano lesson thing. I don't know what kind of comment that is, but no place for it here.

The Brake/Turn lights are bright because the bulb has two filaments in it and the Brake/Turn lamps use the Brighter(Greater Current) Filament and the Tail/Running Lights use the Dimmer (Lesser Current) filament .
If you have LEDs there is a brighter set and a dimmer set in the same housing.
That is why there is a Brown and a Green or Yellow wire going to each tail light.
Two wires, Two Filaments.
The are all powered by the same 12 volt system voltage.
The brightness is determined by the bulb not the vehicle.

----------------------
The Piano Lesson reference was originally in an early post that has since been edited out.
I did not make it originally, I found it humorous, and just repeated it. :)
However, my post is now the first to mention it.

It refers to the opinion that the amount of time being spent in an attempt to flash the side markers is not a good use of your time.
And the time would be better spent doing something else, Like say, learning to play a musical instrument.
There have been numerous examples why this will not work and the only real reason to attempt it would be for the COOL factor.
At some point the commentators here become frustrated and want to just throw in the towel.
Hence the Piano Lesson comments are a humorous way to relieve the stress present in this thread. ;)

However the nature of this forum is that we will continue to offer assistance to anyone that is willing to listen long past the point that logic would suggest it would be reasonable.
We do this on the slim chance that someone will actually come up with a workable solution.
As slim as that chance may be!
But also for the educational value of the side discussions. (Like this Dual Filament Bulb thing.)

There is no offense intend in the comment and none should be taken on your part.
It is just part of the fun of being on a forum. :D

And as usual, If you have to explain the joke it won't be funny. :eek:
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
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Messages
30,591
Re: Running lights as signals?

This is pointless at this point...but then explain why the lights go from dim to bright and back and not off to bright and back when the turn signals are on while the running lights are on. Yea, the turn and brake lights are the same voltage cause they're the same brightness at the bulb, but the running lights are much more dim in the tail lights. Less current then I guess. But less voltage would accomplish the same effect. I'll have to check with the multimeter.

Also, quit it with the piano lesson thing. I don't know what kind of comment that is, but no place for it here.
Two completely different filaments that pull two totally different current with the same voltage. Same reason two different light bulbs you buy for your home have two different wattage(for example a 50W bulb and a 100W bulb). They both use the same voltage but different brightness because the filaments are different.
 

UncleWillie

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Re: Running lights as signals?

Two completely different filaments that pull two totally different current with the same voltage. Same reason two different light bulbs you buy for your home have two different wattage(for example a 50W bulb and a 100W bulb). They both use the same voltage but different brightness because the filaments are different.

Excellent!

I just looked it up; #1157 bulb.
The filaments are roughly 8 watts and 25 watts.
The 25 watt filament puts out roughly 10 time the light (Candellas) of the Dimmer Filament.

I wouldn't have thought they were that different just looking at them!
 

firemedic1

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Re: Running lights as signals?

Yes many older GM cars had this on the front side marker lights, I have a 95 van that does this. I believe you need to stop the marker light from grounding to the frame and run a ground wire to the turn signal wire, so the marker light will ground through it when it is off and the marker light will lose it's groung when it is on, causeing the marker light to go off. They will flash opposite. If this does not work i still think you need to attack this on the ground side not the pos. side.
 

hungupthespikes

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Running lights as signals?

I think we are missing the most important part of this. When the marker light goes off then it is no longer a marker light and the trailer is not up to the spec. of the law.
In order to keep the marker on the whole time and signal a turn a separate filament/bulb/light will have to be added for night time use.
Like Don said you can add, but when you start taking lights away your in trouble.

huts
 

UncleWillie

Captain
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Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: Running lights as signals?

Yes many older GM cars had this on the front side marker lights, I have a 95 van that does this. I believe you need to stop the marker light from grounding to the frame and run a ground wire to the turn signal wire, so the marker light will ground through it when it is off and the marker light will lose it's ground when it is on, causing the marker light to go off. They will flash opposite. If this does not work i still think you need to attack this on the ground side not the pos. side.

Beside the possible legal issue noted by HUTS...

The car was flashing a single front marker.
The trailer likely has multiple side/clearance markers on the tongue, sides and/or fenders.
Grounding multiple side lights through a single Brake/Turn filament will yield dim side lights and a glowing Brake/Turn Filament.
 

04fxdwgi

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
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Messages
754
Re: Running lights as signals?

Beside the possible legal issue noted by HUTS...

The car was flashing a single front marker.
The trailer likely has multiple side/clearance markers on the tongue, sides and/or fenders.
Grounding multiple side lights through a single Brake/Turn filament will yield dim side lights and a glowing Brake/Turn Filament.

Sorry to disagree, but the grounding the small fillament side marker light thru the large fillament turn signal will not result in a dim side marker light. The tiny current flow thru the turn light will not make it glow, either. There is a miniscule voltage drop across the turn filament, but not enought to dim the side marker light to be noticable or light the turn.

Electrical theroy 101.....

GM did for years with great success. Plus I have done this conversion myself on quite a few vehicles and it always works just fine.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
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3,995
Re: Running lights as signals?

Sorry to disagree, but the grounding the small filament side marker light thru the large filament turn signal will not result in a dim side marker light. The tiny current flow thru the turn light will not make it glow, either. There is a minuscule voltage drop across the turn filament, but not enough to dim the side marker light to be noticeable or light the turn.

I agree!

My point was that grounding a single low wattage bulb through a larger wattage bulb will have a minimal negative effect.
Grounding MULTIPLE low wattage bulbs in parallel through a single larger wattage bulb MAY be pushing the trick a little too far. :D
 

81_chapparel194

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Aug 7, 2012
Messages
341
Re: Running lights as signals?

guys and or gals i may be a newb to this forum but direct current voltage is my specialty and the way the OP is wanting to do this is almost next to impossible without a bunch of expensive relays and diodes, the simplest easiest inexpensive way is to go to your local tractor supply or walmart and pick up a small set of clearance lights and wire them into the turn signal circuit with a draw back of having them illuminate with the brake circuit energized... also NATM (national association of trailer manufactures) states on the lights you must have amber running lights at the front of trailer and red on the rear. and reccomends but dont require a red/amber (front is amber rear is red) fender light attatched atop the fenders. (clearence lights) and if the trailer is less than 32 feet the front and mid clearence markers must not flash... however the natm is not LAW. just the requirements for the trailer to meet NATM standards which is kind of like the jd power of trailers.. i know because i work for a large utility trailer manufacturer.. sorry to ramble on...back to your regularly scheduled discussion.. and i think the front lights signals would be cool but useless... if you have room to switch lanes the car behind you is seeing your tail lights not side markers...
 

delirious

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 20, 2012
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101
Re: Running lights as signals?

marker lights are optional!! tail/stop/turn and licence plate illumination is all required. and the whole logic behind alternatively flashing signals is that 12vdc circuits are seen as a ground on the pos side of said circuit. meaning that lets say your ignitions wire in your tow vehicle, test it hot (ignition on) its 12vdc+, turn it off and it becomes a ground.
I think we are missing the most important part of this. When the marker light goes off then it is no longer a marker light and the trailer is not up to the spec. of the law.
In order to keep the marker on the whole time and signal a turn a separate filament/bulb/light will have to be added for night time use.
Like Don said you can add, but when you start taking lights away your in trouble.

huts
 

Roadrager50

Seaman
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Messages
71
Re: Running lights as signals?

Okay guys I did this on my trailer. I had to gut the system anyways and start over so I did it this way. I have a Roadrunner trailer with side steps that go about two feet in front of fender. So I put a small clearance light on the front of the step and made a bracket and wired in a dual led light like I have on my bigrig trailer.It worked good because I rewired the whole trailer with led lights I even wired seperate stop and turn lights on back of trailer. There is a place here in Cali called the "Lighthouse" they have everything you need and are willing to help out if you need it. Good luck with your project.

Happy Boating
 

Bob's Garage

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
590
Re: Running lights as signals?

They are not optional.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/standards/conspicuity/trlrpstr.html

NO...becomes an open! It may measure as 0V with reference to ground but it isn't being grounded.

Correct!! But the laws may be different in Canada, but not in current flow.

One other thing, side maker lights tend to be chassis grounded, w/o a separate ground wire so connecting them as described would require a re-engineering of the light housing.

Cheaper to just add another side light, quicker also.
 

LippCJ7

Vice Admiral
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Sep 20, 2010
Messages
5,431
Re: Running lights as signals?

I did this to a fairly good sized flatbed trailer I used to own, the very simple way to do this is to put a brake stop turn light on as the side marker light, if you look around you can find them that are the same size as marker lights, they are not always huge, then I bought the same size amber marker light and simply changed the lenses from red to amber, simple easy fix and then you get the added comfort of having another turn signal on the side, cheap and easy, you can find them on the web or at the local auto parts store. the law only cares about the color, I don't know of a state that allows forward facing red lights except for emergency vehicles and sometimes not even those.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,591
Re: Running lights as signals?

I don't know about you guys, but I usually like to keep things simple. The whole idea of complicating something as simple as trailer lights is beyond me.

OP also hasn't been here in a month.
 

FIFTEEN'6"

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I REALIZE THIS POST IS VERY OLD. I HAVE DONE THIS MANY TIMES AND WOULD LIKE TO SHARE MY SIMPLE APPROACH TO BLINKING THE MARKER LIGHTS.
I SIMPLY WIRE THE MARKERS UP LIKE NORMAL, THEN USE A PAIR OF BOSCH RELAYS WIRED WITH A PAIR OF AUTOMOTIVE FLASHERS TO INTERRUPT THE CONSTANT RUNNING LIGHT SIGNAL TO THE MARKERS IN A FLASHING MATTER. I TAP THE TURN SIGNAL LEADS NEAR THE STEERING COLUMN OF THE VEHICLE TO TRIGGER THE RELAYS. RUN THE WIRES TO THE REAR AND USE AN ADDITIONAL TRAILER HARNESS QUICK CONNECT TO GET OUT TO THE TRAILER. I WILL BE WIRING MY NEW BOAT'S TRAILER THIS WEEKEND AND WILL POST PICTURES AND MORE DETAILS IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED. REALLY SIMPLE AND SAFE. NEVER HAD AND ISSUES.
 

GA_Boater

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If you want to post details, start a new topic. Click on the Forum Help in the sig below and review the rules before posting to inactive threads. Thanks.

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