?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

[nola mike]

in the market to buy my first boat, though i grew up around them. i'm looking for a late 80's/early '90's 18-21' bowrider, i/o, to be used in brackish water, likely trailered (though i'd rather not...we'll see) when i won't be around. boat will be used for cruising, skiing, and fishing, probably in that order. a few questions:

1. should i be looking for a closed cooling system, or does it make much of a difference? which engines had them?

2. any particular minimum engine size? i'm looking for a top speed of 45ish, ability to pull a 200# slalom skier at 33ish.

3. most important: what should i look for prior to purchase? i'm pretty handy, and could probably fix most problems myself. i'd like to avoid missing something major, like a bad block (i'll compression test) or outdrive (i don't know how to evaluate that).
3a. i'll be looking at a couple of boats next week with omc cobra drives; i've seen something about bad shift cables destroying gears. anything else i should look for?
3b. most of these seem to have merc alpha 1 gen 2 drives--anything particular to look for here?

4. any way to evaluate the condition of the subflooring, except looking for spongy points? where should i be sure to check?

anything else i'm missing?

 

[ShaneCarroll]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

Well happy to hear you're joining the boating life. If you are looking at a bowrider between the 18-21' range, most of them will have i/o's. The OMC is no longer made, which could potentially make looking for replacement parts quite the task. To answer your questions:
1. I personally am not too fond of closed cooling systems, you shouldn't really need it in brackish water.
2. For an 18-19' boat, get at least a 6 cylinder (4.3L), for anything above that, you should be looking at at least an 8 cylinder (5.0 or 5.7L).
3. Take the boat on a test drive, and listen to how the engine acts when shifting into and out of gear. Also, check the color of the lower unit oil, it should be an aqua green, if it is milky, it could mean a bad water leak. The Alpha One Gen II is a good outdrive, if properly maintained.
4. Make sure to check the transom, to see if it is solid. And just pace the entire boat for soft spots, also, on the sea trial, hit a wake or two and see if the seats or the console move around, or if they are sturdy.

Hope this helps.

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

Well happy to hear you're joining the boating life. If you are looking at a bowrider between the 18-21' range, most of them will have i/o's. The OMC is no longer made, which could potentially make looking for replacement parts quite the task. To answer your questions:

hmm, i've read that the OMC parts are still easy to find--is this not the case?

3. Take the boat on a test drive, and listen to how the engine acts when shifting into and out of gear. Also, check the color of the lower unit oil, it should be an aqua green, if it is milky, it could mean a bad water leak. The Alpha One Gen II is a good outdrive, if properly maintained.

should i just unscrew a drain bolt with the unit trailered?

4. Make sure to check the transom, to see if it is solid.

how do i do this?

Hope this helps.

thanks!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

Buying a boat

1st you need to decide what you want to use it for, fishing, cruising, or water sports.

2nd how many people adults, children you want on board of the average outing.

3rd outboard, inboard-outboard, or inboard power plant.

4th Budget, what you want to pay, and what you are willing to pay, when you find
Exactly what you want.

You can hire a marine surveyor, to inspect the boat, or you can do it yourself.

You are mainly looking for soft spots in the deck, transom, cracks, all signs of a rotten, under frame. You walk all over the deck, that a mallot, or hammer with wooden handle, using handle, tap all over the transom, a shape rap is good solid base, a thud, is questionable base.

The motor should be clean, no spots where the paint is discolored, or pealing from heat, having run hot. (This part for outboard motors Compression should be atleast 100psi, and within 10% of each other,)
Spark on all cylinders, good pee stream, check lower unit for water in oil.

The overall condition of the boat will tell you a lot, as to how it has been maintained.
boat motor combo, A 30 year old may be in better condition, than a 3 year old.

 

[Steve Mahler]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

I am not going to start a whole OMC bash, but really, as a perspective buyer, why give yourself the trouble. Lots of mechanics dont know how to work on them, and I personally dislike the shift mechanism on the Cobras even when working properly with the correct cables. Stick with Merc or Volvo to reduce headaches.

With boat trailered and drive raised up, push hard on skeg to see if there is any transom flex. also good to knock around looking for change in tone as you go from top to bottom.

Peek in all compartments under the floor etc looking for rotted wood, etc.

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

ok, i'm going to look at a 21' galaxy with a 4.3l merc. very good price, but the owner says the boat cuts off immediately when he tries to put it into gear--doesn't engage the transmission at all. says it starts, revs fine in neutral. original engine, outdrive rebuilt 3y ago. i'll check compression, spark, and of course i realize i'm taking a chance buying a boat with a problem, but if the price is right, i figure i can fix what's wrong and still come out ahead. i suppose the list of possible problems is large, however, here's what i'm thinking; please set me straight if i'm off:

1. biggest concern would be the outdrive, assuming good compression, engine runs/revs fine. i'll check the lower unit oil--what else can i check here? i'd like to try to turn the engine over in gear, either by hand or other means, to see if it's a mechanical transmission prob or maybe electrical (kill/safety switch?)
2. it could always be a fuel/spark/timing problem that occurs under load, but this seems less likely if the tranny won't even attempt to engage, yet it revs ok in neutral.

anything else i should check given this info?

 

[QC]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

It is probably the shift interrupt system (ESA). Those drives have momentary interruption of ignition to allow the drive to get out of gear. Could be an adjustment or need a new cable. Could also be something else, but that specific complaint is very common. Do some searching in the I/O section vvvvv . . .

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

thanks! big help. i figured it sounded like something simple/electrical v. a major mechanical problem. i won't be able to road test it, but with what he's asking + what i may be able to get it for with an unknown problem, i think it's worth a shot.

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

don s's post was very helpful, and i found a link to a youtube video showing a cutaway of the outdrive which also helped make sense of things. assuming it's a switch/cable problem, is there a workaround to make the boat usable until i do a proper repair? can the switch be disconnected, or the shifter engaged from the engine side, etc? thanks!

 

[QC]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

You need it right. Unsafe otherwise . . .

 

[MikDee]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

It is probably the shift interrupt system (ESA). Those drives have momentary interruption of ignition to allow the drive to get out of gear. Could be an adjustment or need a new cable. Could also be something else, but that specific complaint is very common. Do some searching in the I/O section vvvvv . . .

QC is right on, If it is this common problem, this is exactly what has to be done before using the boat. There are no shortcuts. If the seller was straightup, he should do it for you or have it done, it's not very hard to do, nor costly, but sometimes the drive has to come off to do it.

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

turned out to be a moot point anyway--after a 3h drive, i heard a knock which "had been there since i've had the boat". a quick compression test later (10 psi in #5), and i was sadly back in the truck on my way home, still no boat...

 

[salmonee]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

in the market to buy my first boat, though i grew up around them. i'm looking for a late 80's/early '90's 18-21' bowrider, i/o, to be used in brackish water, likely trailered (though i'd rather not...we'll see) when i won't be around. boat will be used for cruising, skiing, and fishing, probably in that order. a few questions:

1. should i be looking for a closed cooling system, or does it make much of a difference? which engines had them?

2. any particular minimum engine size? i'm looking for a top speed of 45ish, ability to pull a 200# slalom skier at 33ish.

3. most important: what should i look for prior to purchase? i'm pretty handy, and could probably fix most problems myself. i'd like to avoid missing something major, like a bad block (i'll compression test) or outdrive (i don't know how to evaluate that).
3a. i'll be looking at a couple of boats next week with omc cobra drives; i've seen something about bad shift cables destroying gears. anything else i should look for?
3b. most of these seem to have merc alpha 1 gen 2 drives--anything particular to look for here?

4. any way to evaluate the condition of the subflooring, except looking for spongy points? where should i be sure to check?

anything else i'm missing?

I've been reseaching for year reading as much as I can. I never owned a boat so take my input w/ a grain of salt. If I was buying an i/o I would buy an engine w/ fuel injection. Search some of the thread that I started. I forget what the fault was but i recalled something about water can get sucked into your engine bring the engine from WOT to stop. This scenario is only a problem on carbs.

Now that I'm looking at outboards AGAIN. This is a non issue.

 

[superpop]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

The fuel delivery method, carbed or FI has nothing to do with reversion or sucking water into the motor. Reversion occurs when the motor has a cam that can create a vacuum on the exhaust side, thus sucking water into the cylinders. This can also happen on a motor that is improperly installed on a boat and the motor is sitting to far below the water line without proper equipment to prevent water from coming into the engine via the exhaust. As far as what to look for, most of it has already been mentioned. Some people make way more out of little issues or do not understand what they are looking at so they tend to end up in what I call Paralysis by Analysis. Stick to the basics, have a mechanic check the drive system out if you do not know how to do this, and crawl all over the boat looking for rot or soft spots. That's it.

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

alright, next up is a 1986 19' glastron with what the owner says is a 170hp merc. looking up the specs online, looks like this boat weighs 1150#; i'm figuring that should be good for 45+ mph, and should be enough to pull a 200# slalom skier (me). he's asking more than book value (in fact, every boat i've seen has been considerably more than book value), but the boat has been garage kept, and from the pics looks exceptionally clean. fingers crossed...

 

[MikDee]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

alright, next up is a 1986 19' glastron with what the owner says is a 170hp merc. looking up the specs online, looks like this boat weighs 1150#; i'm figuring that should be good for 45+ mph, and should be enough to pull a 200# slalom skier (me). he's asking more than book value (in fact, every boat i've seen has been considerably more than book value), but the boat has been garage kept, and from the pics looks exceptionally clean. fingers crossed...

Ok, Red lights going off! Is that the dreaded 470 Merc?

A 170hp I/O? Or a 175hp outboard? If it's the former, Walk Away,,, Fast!
That engine is a design with problems, & obsolete for parts now!

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

the former i believe...

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

yikes. the boat is the guy's father, who's had it since new. always garaged, sounds like it's been meticulously maintained. based on this:
http://www.classicglastron.com/1986_Glastron_X19.html
it looks like it's the 170--though the guy says it's a 6 cyl. hmmm.
though i don't have a ton of experience working on boats, i've worked on cars, and am pretty handy in general. so is this something to stay away from, regardless of maintainance history, condition of the boat, and massochism of the potential buyer? i'm getting frustrated trying to find something here...

 

[TBTOsterman]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

the former i believe...

My Merc 470 was a pain until I had a few things ironed out. Here are the highlites of my 12 year history with the 470:

*strong running, powered my 18' 2900# WebbCraft to around 40mph
*tubes and skis were no problem with a 19 pitch prop
*not a very smooth running motor compared to a 4.3 or my current 5.0
*the closed cooling system was a pain that caused a very warm / hot engine at all speeds
*the charging system (rectifier) is trash- it ran hot, charged sometimes, and was expensive and not easily serviceable

My first fix was the cooling system. Once I ordered an oversized heat exchanger (about $350 if I remember correctly) there were no more cooling problems and the boat was very easy to winterize. I never paid a winterizing bill until last summer when I got a new boat.

As for the charging system, I trashed the factory parts, fabricated an alternator mount, and installed an alternator and belt off the existing pulley. There were no charging issues after that.

All in all, the motor was easy to service and maintain. I had no other mechanical issues, but I could always count on the mechanic's look when I told them I had a 470.

I hope this helps!

 

[nola mike]

Re: ?'s on buying a "new" boat...what to look for?

thanks for the information. neither of those issues you describe seem like that big of a deal, but the practical side of me says that i should just hold out (forever?) until the perfect boat comes along...
can anyone tell if this is a 470?