Schooling Advice what should I do?

durk187 · Nov 22, 2002

First off let me say I am a College Dropout. I have 2 years of college under my belt, and I am half-way to a BS in Computer Engineering. I hated school and therefore did very poorly, leaving it behind 2 years ago. I am 23 years old, and have been a manager at a Cellular Phone Store since. I also hate what im doing now, and feel that I have to get out while I can. Lately my priorties seem to be changing, I find myself always researching what I do not know, often wondering if I would be responsible enough now to go back to school. My career goal is to own/run a computer/boating related buisness and right now im not doing anything to obtain that. As old salts at life, and far more experenced than I, what would you do? In practice, how often has your degree helped or hindered you? Do you think a degree is worth my while to obtain my career goals? Should I just go after it as is, and write a book in 30 years "how I did it without papers". I just dont know. Hope I diddnt scare anyone off, I just am looking for some input that might help me succeed in living my dreams. I fear that I may be growing up, that scares me. DC

Ross J · Nov 22, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

OK Duckcommander, I'll start this ball rolling. I left school at the 6th form age 16, no qualifications at all. Worked with my father in the Devonport Navy Dockyard for a while, tried my hand at electronics with a lot of training but failed to appreciate it and ended up down a coal mine working bloody hard. Then it happened, I fell in love. Married I needed to get a better way of looking after my wife than this dangerous style, so I looked around and decided I'd try bus driving. Didn't work, I couldn't stand the attitude of the very folk I had to transport. My wife meanwhile had registered as a General and Obstretric Nurse. I was not happy with my lot, I wanted to be comfortable and support my now growing family and this life style wasn't the way to do so. One day, I got shot at! This freaked me out and I realised just precious life is and how I could change my way if I really wanted to, so I opened the paper and there was an advertisement for students to join the Psychiatric Nurse training course. I applied and after much interviewing and exam sitting I was selected for training. I haven't looked back since. For me it was the best step I could ever have made. I help others and learn from them now and wouldn't have it any other way. Never stop learning, never feel there's no more you can do. Bye the way, my aunt became the oldest person in NZ to pass a degree in law, she was over 80yrs old when she finished! Go for it mate, whats the worst you can do? Fail? Not bloody likely if you're heart's in it! Ross

Moose_Miller · Nov 22, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

I always had my own theory about college: missing out on 4 years of earnings and trading them for 4 years of "spending" to make an extra 5 grand a year. The fact is, I worked some crap jobs and had to claw my way out of the "maunual labor" positions to get where I am now. Many of my collegues in the same position as me are much younger and are making the same money due to a degree. Basically, I traded 15 years of back-breaking grunt work for what I could have gotten with 4 years of school. My wife had 2 years of college in when she got pregnant with our first. She left school to tend to the baby, and before long she was expecting again. After the kids got a little older, she went back to school and got her degree and she does pretty well now because of it. These days, a college degree means alot to employers. Depending on your current responsabilities of course, I'd say you should go back to school... even if it's part time at nights or whatever. Heck, you're already 1/2 way there, and you're still young.

62_Kiwi · Nov 22, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

Duckcommander, the most important things in business are; what you know, who you know, what you can do, how much you believe in yourself - and how motivated you are. If you want to get a formal education, that's great - go for it. I have a university degree myself (Computer Science), but have often wondered how much good it does me in business (because I've always been my own boss)...except that at one time it made me take up a challenge and achieve it. It also helped me to learn how to learn. There are other ways to do this of course. If you want to run your own business, then practical skills are more important than formal qualifications. Work out what skills you will need for your business and either get them yourself - or hire people that have them. Formal qualifications are really useful for getting jobs in other people's businesses. You need to decide whether this is important to you. Good luck!

SpinnerBait_Nut · Nov 22, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

OK, all I have to say on this subject is, you can never get enough education, no matter what kind it is. Now having said that, I dropped out of high school in my senior year.<dumba$$> and for 22 years, I drove tractor trailer over the road and made pretty good money at it. I came off the road and started my own landscaping business in which I needed no high school diploma for that either, but I was determined not to be outdone by my 3 now grown daughters, so after some hard book work, I went and got my GED. It really made me feel good although I did not need it for anything, but I have it hanging here in my computer room so I can look at it ever now and again. The whole point I am making is, you can never learn to much, and you are never to old to learn. I got my GED at 49.

mellowyellow · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

as a business owner myself, I say just go for it! I got into the Computer Hardware business by mistake about 7 yrs ago. after working for Xerox as a salesman for years. didn't even own a PC at the time and knew nothing about the business. I busted my behind for a year and ended up being the top salesperson. the secret? HARD WORK... after working for 3 different companies in the industry, I made a decision to start my own business with only a few bucks in the bank. it's the best decision I have ever made in my life!!! I work out of my house, so get lots of time to spend with the wife & kids. can go fishing whenever the mood strikes me, and I make a very good living. my advice to you: get a job in the field you want to open a business in. start at the bottom if you have to, bust your behind for a while and get to know the business first. then just go for it! fear is the biggest obstacle you will have to overcome. BTW, there are sure a lot of posts from overseas boat owners complaining that they can't get spare parts for their motors. may be able to fill a need there... ps. I dropped out of college after 2 years to support a new family myself. good luck, M.Y.

JB · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

Ahoy, DuckCommander. I have mixed feelings about degrees. While it is true that a degree helps in getting a job and is required in some fields, the world is full of skilled and successful specialists who were educated by life and experience, not in a college classroom. I think the difference is what Bernard Haldane called "Motivated Skills". These are skills that you have used successfully and with pleasure all of your life. Examine your early school years and look for what your greatest successes were. Those successes used motivated skills. Example. As a child I enjoyed success writing and making verbal presentations in class. I also enjoyed tinkering with anything mechanical and was repairing outboards, bikes, lawnmowers and such at 10 or 12. The Navy pushed me to engineering. I taught technicians and engineers. Later I wanted to make more bux. MBA. I taught Managers and Salesmen as well as engineers. I wrote educational materials. I ended up teaching in Tech Schools and Colleges. They kept offering me Admin. positions, so I had to get a Ph.D. in Adult Ed. So, Guess what? I taught Techs, managers and teachers. Now I am retired. I teach and write about one of my lifelong hobbies, boats and outboards. My point is that my success in life would have been from teaching and writing, no matter what field in which had been educated. Those are my motivated skills. Find your motivated skills. You will be happiest and most successful using them. Good luck.

Capt. Bob · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

Getting additional education seems to always come back to...what am I willing to give up to obtain it? I would say that, if your goals require education or training to be able to "get there". then you must give up something and get the education. If your goals don't require that you re-school..then take the first step (whatever that is) to move forward with the goal. Once you begin working toward it other steps become obvious and you begin to realize that goal. My children (6) are constantly having ideas about how their life would be better "if", but they fail to take the first step to get the ball rolling and remain in the same situation. You are 23 and probably have few encumbrances....do it now before you have to give up *more* to realize your dreams and goals and that "giving up", keeps you from taking the first step. Within a year I will be giving up a 30 year old construction business that has provided me a comfortable living. My responsibilities will be met and I can do as I please...so to speak. Over the years I have found that my dream is related to being on the water and something related to that will provide my income. I have a supportive wife that will "go and do" whatever it takes to help me realize that dream. I have had to wait for years to pass before I could change my direction because of responsibility to children and commitments I made. I worked in a job that I hated because I was trained for and educated for it right out of high school. Because of family tradition and expectations I ended up what my father and grandfather were....despite any other interests I had at the time. So now I will break the tradition and go for my dream...soon. Good luck with yours.

Scoop · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

Duckcommander, Tough questions. I agree with JB. A degree is helpful or nesscessary in being able to get into some positions. I have a BA in Anthropology from a Liberal Arts college. I am not working that field since I would need a PH.D. My wife is ABD (All But Dissertation) in Anthropology. I did learn a lot in College and I think it expanded my ways of thinking greatly. I am glad I got my education. I wish I had tried harder, gotten better grades and worked to the level I was capable. After college, I had a hard time finding a job. Usual difficulties, overqualified, no experience, etc. I worked a lot of bad jobs and low paying jobs. One of the worst was grinding the surface of abestos brake shoes with no breathing mask. I had to sweep the dust off the floor too. My wife then talked me into going back to tech school. I had always had an interest in electronics and had chosen college instead of a certain electronics school. I went to that school now. I went to school full time in an accelerated program and worked part time. The difference in school this time is I tried. I read all the books, I did all the homework, I studied all the formulas. I got straight A's. It opened some doors to me getting a job in a field I like. The work I did while in School was being one of the first few people to be on the Rayovac Renewal rechargable alkaline battery project. I collected the battery discharge data and put out the graphs and data that they used to make the go no-go decision on. After tech school, I got a job in computers and worked my way up. I have been a manager for a computer consulting for 8 years now. I was in thr right place at the right time to get the initial job in this company. The Associates degree helped me get the intial job, the BA fulfilled the requirements for the Management job, but they would have been waived anyway because I was an internal candidate. Unfortunately, my computer tech skills are going away as a manager, while my big picture planning skills are increasing. I am still a tech at heart though. My advice would be. Get the degree if you think it will help in the field you are going into or if it will give you confidence in yourself. Don't get it just to spend money. You will only get the grades and be happy in school if you really want it. If it boosts your confidence, it will help you get a job in the right field. Mellow Yellow owns his own computer business and makes a good living. He must be good. I have seen more of those businesses go out of business that I can count. Main thing is being good technically, a good personable person, and add a lot of value to what you provide. It is not for everyone. It does sound like you now have the drive to go back to school. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Jack Shellac · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

duckcommander: I think you have already gotten some excellent advice and can only add my two cents. Please forgive my presumption, but does the fact that you're concerned about it already give you a big part of the answer? I can identify with your situation since I left school to go into the service at age 17. Stayed in 4 1/2 years and at the urging of my future wife, got out and and went to college on the GI Bill. I didn't like college either, but stuck it out and got an engineering degree. My wife was a lot smarter than me back then. It has opened doors to me that I would never thought possible back when I was a rough and tumble kid. As others have pointed out, it just opened the door; the rest was up to me. I would suggest that you give some really serious thought as to what you want from life and go from there. It it fits your goals, go for it. Good luck.

snapperbait · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

I can only offer this advice with my 30 years of life experience... Don't get stuck where you don't want to be... Do whatever it takes to make it all happen... Grab that Bull (life) by the horns and hang on because you never know where it will take you... I let my dream job opprotunity in the marine industry pass me by this past summer and I kick myself in the butt every day now because of it... I basicly run the family buisness now because my Dad is ready to retire... I just could not drop it all and leave after 13 years to do what I wanted so I'm stuck with it... Responsibility to my family comes first for me and it's a tough pill to swallow.... P.S. Growing up IS OPTIONAL....

Fishbusters · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

Simple and concise. You will never be as ready and able as you once were to go back to school. The fact is you are now not nearly as free as you were just out of High School. That said do whatever it takes to go get your degree. I have been there and done that and now am much happier. I now work at a job I enjoy (despite how it seems sometimes) and the only way I could have done it is go back to school. BTW I found out that everything I learned in school was nothing I needed to know in reality but I had to take the classes to be qualified to do what i do. I still would not have traded everything I went through to have gotten there including going bankrupt.

durk187 · Nov 23, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

A personal Thank You for all the advice. I guess I need to find my motivation and path to get to my goal. If that path might require "papers" I will have to get them. So I guess the hard part is deciding if I need it or not. If I find out I do, that in itself will have all the motivation in the world. My problem in the past has been that I thought I diddnt need them, thus setting me up for failure. I have until July 1 to decide, this is the enrollment dedline for the University. DC

bKelly · Nov 25, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

Duckcommander, I think an education is something that no one can take from you. My degree (Agronomy – Plant and Soil Science) has helped me to attain my job. My wife, Graduates in December and her Degree (Corporate Finance) will give her an instant raise in pay and position.

I really enjoyed college and would have enjoyed it even more if I did not have to go to class.

I am kicking around the idea of getting a masters in Biology or at least a minor biology and chemistry. The longer you stay out, the harder it is to go back.

DJ · Nov 25, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

duckcommander, Many may disagree, however a secondary education is almost a requirement in this society to become even moderately succesful. Sorry to say, but it's a fact of life that potential employers look at you in an entirely different light if you have a degree. In many instances, they don't care what it's in. It just gives them some proof that you can achieve a set goal. Don't get me wrong, there are many fine folks that have been able to make it on their own without it. But they will also tell you, it was an uphill climb all the way. Secondary education provides two things. 1. A skill-possibly if you are going into a highly technical field. 2. Thinking skills. The most valuable (to me) part of my education was learning research and documentation skills. I know you may not like it, but stick it out. If you do, you will never have to look back and say "where would I be if I had just finished".

mellowyellow · Nov 25, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

if owning your own business is the ultimate goal here, a degree will make no difference... unless you fall on your face and need to go look for a job. just remember, 50% of all new business' fail in the first year and half of those fail in the 2nd year. not everyone is cut out to own a business. in the big picture, a degree is a nice insurance policy. just curious, what kind of business did you have in mind? good luck, M.Y.

NOSLEEP · Nov 25, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

When we are young, we are slavishly employed in procuring something whereby we may live comfortably when we grow old. And when we are old, we preceive it is too late to live as we proposed.

495v · Nov 25, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

If you decide to go back to school to get a degree, make sure you are going to school to learn and not just for that piece of paper. True, business owners don't need a degree to start their own business, BUT, successful business' are those whose founder has a good backround in knowledge and hands on experience. They ultimately go hand in hand. Both my wife and I are college grads.( accounting and finance) When you first finish school and think you are going to make the bucks, you find out that the good paying jobs require a degree and 4-5 years of experience. College will teach you some very important things about the business world and running your own business. Things like cash management, employee management, internal control, inventory control, sales, accounting, finance, and many others. These, however, are just principles that you must learn to apply in the real business world. I say nothing in life is more valuable than knowledge and an education, except family, friends, and you i-boat buddies. Go for it. I do know from experience, that longer you wait, the harder it is to get back!

mellowyellow · Nov 25, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

495V, what do knowledge of (any)business and experience in the same have to do with a piece of paper? just curious how many folks out there work in their field of study? JB has this one by far... do what you're best at and you'll be a great succuss regardless of any degree. it's usually pretty close to what you love. the best job is doing what you love to do.... now that's success! what that is, is up to you...

495v · Nov 25, 2002

Re: Schooling Advice what should I do?

M.Y., knowledge is USUALLY learned in school, in which you earn your degree, and that piece of paper allows you to get in the door to get the hands on experience. I've seen many people go through college just to say they have a degree and unfortunatley learned nothing in 4 years of school. School is not about getting a degree, that's just something to show your boss. School is about learning, whether it be a business school, trade school, or whatever. As far as from a business aspect....what better way to learn the DONT'S of running a business than to experience it either first hand, or by disecting a struggling company to find out were they went wrong. In school, you will take sort of a history view of the business functions. Learn about the problems in the past to avoid repeating them in the future. Now I understand that the older generation is gotten through life and done well for themselves without a college education, but in these days in time, without a degree you won't even get your foot in the door, unless of course it's your door. And to answer your survey...went to school for finance and accounting, began a career in accounting, and now have moved up to Vice President after 6 years, which I owe to my schooling because of the fact I was able to learn a wide array of business functions not just accounting.

Schooling Advice what should I do?

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