Separation of church and state?

[txswinner]

Re: Separation of church and state?

Kill 'em all let God sort out the good'uns

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Separation of church and state?

hahahah you guys are killing me.<br />do I want the ten commandments or some bible passages on a courthouse wall? no. why? cause if one side can place a religous credo another "religion" be it wiccan,satanism,drudism or such what not should and will have the same right to post there tennents on the same wall.<br /> in fact my sister has been wiccan for some years( 15 or so) and when my child custody case came up my ex wifes lawyer blew it up like wiccans were child eaters and mother stabbers.<br /> took about 9 hours of testimony by me,my sister, my other 3 sisters my dad my mom and more friends than I care to say to counter a sisters belief that had nothing to do with the case as she lives in washington state and I live on the coast of NC.<br /> how in the heck did it devolve into a matter of religion instead of a matter of who had the better resources and stability to raise children, my Ex's attorney also fought bitterly to supress my ex's many hospital stays due to a mental illness or the fact that she had started "dating" several men on the internet and having them over when my son and daughter were home with here.<br /> that testimony only lasted an hour or so.<br /> so I will reiterate, no I want no relgious symbols or creeeds posted anywhere near a court of law.<br /> law is law if ya want religion join a religous structure of your choice.<br /> but if one allows a religous creed or symbol on a taxpayer funded property one must allow anyones religous symbols or creeds to be posted no matter how offensive to one or two others.<br />was funny though after all the wiccan testimony, and yes I hired a wiccan priestess to testify as to the wiccan creeds, the judge actually said that it was as good as most christian stuff he had heard.just cost me an extra 4000 dollars or so.<br /> but if you allow christian creeds and symbols on public property you must allow all religous creeds and symbols on public property.<br />just how it is here in the land of the free.<br /> thats why its free.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Separation of church and state?

"if you allow christian creeds and symbols on public property you must allow all religous creeds and symbols on public property.<br />just how it is here in the land of the free."<br /><br />(Edited, my apologies to Rolmops, i meant to say Rodbolt) Rodbolt, that is the logical, honest and most fair way to go about this, BUT, we do not live in a logical, honest and most fair society.<br />Utopia is a only a mirage.

 

[badandy]

Re: Separation of church and state?

I admite on many subjects I am so far rightIam not even in the ball park but I can say that is things such as this that drove me from regular church attendence. Been at least 10 years since I have set foot in a church if you don't count wedings. On the other hand is this diferent than a union telling its members who to vote for? As far as the ten comandments on court room walls they are there in my opinion more as historical documents than religiouse documents as they are the basses of englands laws on which our laws are based.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Separation of church and state?

Rodbolt, I agree.

 

[QC]

Re: Separation of church and state?

Does anybody understand that if you spend all of your time assuring that no person will ever be offended by anything that you can just about forget the written or spoken word? Someone said there is no utopia . . . exactamente, so don't keep trying to create some vanilla version of one.<br /><br />Why does the display of the 10 Commandments as an historical reference require that I give equal time to druids? Anybody? Bueller? Please help me, because I am not sure why one begat the other (biblical reference intentional, and yes I know that this was an improper use of past tense, but seemed appopriate) <br /><br />I know, we should either wipe away all cave drawings within National Parks or also place the 10 Commandments next to each that may depict a religious ceremony. This is definitely Federal land. Wait, we (our cousins in the UK) should bulldoze Stonehenge, religious ceremonies . . . public property . . . We must be 100% consistent, right? Silly? Yup.<br /><br />Edit for one other great example that I couldn't ignore: Does anybody remember that the Taliban literally blew up Statues of Buddha that were considered historical and archaeological treasures? If you don't think that Bulldozing Stonehenge is the same thing then again, you're not paying attention.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Separation of church and state?

QC, <br />in your analagies, did you consider that Stonehenge is an actual historical artifact, while the 'ten commandments' displays are not in fact the actual stone tablets purportedly written by God himself? If not, does that influence your opinion on the validity of that particular analogy?<br /><br />On a side note, did you know that there were originally more than 10 commandments? But Moses was so old & cranky, that after he destroyed the first set, he could only remember mostly the negative ones, don't do this, don't do that, etc. The others were more like advice. Example, number 12 was "Whistle while you work." Most people think Disney wrote that, but actually, he stole it from God. Really, I'm not making this up. It's the work of Father Guido Sarducci.<br /><br />But this one, honestly is really true. Many of the courthouse displays were provided by Paramount Pictures to promote their 1956 film The Ten Commandments, directed by Cecil B. DeMille and starring, interestingly, the immediate past president of the NRA. I'm not attaching any relevance to that for this debate, just thought it was interesting.

 

[QC]

Re: Separation of church and state?

jtex,<br /><br />I am only suggesting that this is an extremely slippery and dangerous slope. Yes, I chose extremes, but you cannot make this planet perfect for everyone and some, frankly very immature, people think you can <br /><br />It is all about line drawing. Some will draw the line beyond historical artifacts (Taliban) and some will draw the line at public displays (ACLU). I don't for one minute believe that the anti-everything zealots will be satisfied with their current line when they have reached it . . .

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Separation of church and state?

while anything you do will most likly offend someone someplace now, I still do not agree with christian symbols and writings on taxpayer funded places such as courts and city halls. thats why churches have billboards. I personally have no issues or take offence to it. my problem is when another wants to ,say, put a couple of pentagrams on the wall or maybe a statue of satan with a slaughterd animal on the front lawn beside a stature of the virgin mary or of the crucifixtion. they will have the same rights to public displays on public property as any other so in the intrests of all we place none. could you imagine being a muslim or a buddest going to court and seeing nothing but writings and pictures of christianity? would make ya a bit nervous regaurdless of innocence or guilt. or maybe only christians and devout followers of the greatest christian,Pat Robertson, should be allowed a trail and the rest just jailed.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Separation of church and state?

It is not an issue of offense to me it is I would not want Muslimcatism pushed on my kids or any other religion. To avoid this we must keep religion out of schools. Now before a football game heck man that is another matter.

 

[QC]

Re: Separation of church and state?

txs,<br /><br />I think I agree with you. To be clear, the unofficial "list" of gov't places and religious things that can be mixed together was AOK the way it was say 10 years ago? True or False?

 

[JB]

Re: Separation of church and state?

Well, a generic Judeo Christian prayer is not as bad as a sermon masquerading as prayer, But prayers at an event like that make many uncomfortable.<br /><br />Whether anyone is uncomfortable is not an issue. Whether tax payers are paying for a religious ceremony is.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Separation of church and state?

QC, <br />Ah, the time-honored "slippery slope" theory; this is as good an application for it as any.<br /><br />After more careful consideration, I'd have to say that while I don't feel offended or threatened in any way by most of the traditional "church & state" issues (the pledge, slogans on currency, biblical artwork at courthouses), when the IRS starts reconsidering our 501c3 status based on what's said from the pulpit, I'm with ya 100%; in the immortal words of Barney Fife, "Nip it! Nip it, I tell ya, we've got to nip it in the bud!"<br /><br />There, I got that all into two sentences. Well, now it's three. Make that four. DOH!