Serious questions about jurisdiction CG or bay constables

NYJim

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
77
Morning people

Some of you may remember that I have been converting a houseboat into a floating deli. Well I have been working on it for six months and am trying to get it ready by May 1st. I have spoken to the coast guard, Nassau county marine division, Nassau county board of health ( have gotten the concession license already) and many other knowledgeable boaters and locals to the area. Have acquired commercial hull insurance and business insurance as well (that was a ton of fun!!). Yesterday I went to the Nassau county conservation and waterways dept to see if I could install a mooring. The answer was no because of idiot boaters hitting them and suing the town. So I am on plan B and C to anchor the vessel. That's not the issue though. Would have been a lot easier than plan B,C. Anyway the commissioner asked why and I told him what I was doing with the boat.

Here is the issue: he tells me that I might need to submit an RFP and have it sent out to bid ??? Claims the town of Hempstead controls ALL the water from land to jones beach island. I was always under the impression that only 100 or so yards under water was town property on either side of the waterway and the rest was considered the Intercoastal Waterways controlled by the Coast Gaurd. In fact that was one of my first questions with the CG when I started this project.

Questions:
1 who has jurisdiction in that area
2 Hempstead marine patrol are not the most pleasant guys around, what could they do to me???? arrest me
3 I have researched this conservationist program. And found very little except this guy likes wind and solar power and makes over a 100k. He is in charge of the estuaries and bay waters. What power does this guy have to tell me they may need to go to bid on this.
4 any clue at this point as to who to contact to finalize these issues?? Very little info on Hempstead marine police
5 who has jurisdiction over who CG over bay constables or visa versa ??

Have sunk over 30k so far and have boat number 2 coming up soon for conversion.

Please realize I have called every department I could think of to be sure I was doing the right thing and this guy could be full of $&))( so any help from all you very knowledgeable people would be very appreciated.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Serious questions about jurisdiction CG or bay constables

You need a lawyer, Jim. It would be foolish to accept even expert advice on a message board.
 

LippCJ7

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
5,431
Re: Serious questions about jurisdiction CG or bay constables

I Think you are at a point where you need a good lawyer to guide you through this, I can't see how anyone here can tell you with any certainty what the specific laws are for your business venture in your area any better then a lawyer that has your best interests in mind, and works for you. Working your way through the red tape is going to be difficult and in the end will most likely mean your needing a lawyer anyway.

Let me ask you are there any other of these businesses in your area? If not then it could mean a few things either they have become to difficult to get through the red tape and therefore not a viable business venture or just that no one has simply worked hard enough to make it.

Anyway I think your stuck and need a lawyers advice and it will cost you a bunch to answer the questions you have but in the end it may very well be worth it but only you with a lawyers help can answer that.


Nice timing JB!!:D
 

NYJim

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
77
Re: Serious questions about jurisdiction CG or bay constables

Guess your right JB. Well there goes getting number two ready for awhile!!!
 

Chris-R

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
183
Re: Serious questions about jurisdiction CG or bay constables

The previous posters nailed it. You are dealing with the convergence of two practice areas in the law. You need an attorney (or law firm) with practice areas including both municipal law and maritime law (a/k/a "Admiralty"). Be prepared to spend some money as I see a bit of work to do here. I expect the attorneys will have their work cut out for them. Our crazy Federalist system of government can really mess you up. Just some of the government authorities that may want a piece of you are the following: Various city agencies, State agencies, Coast Guard, other Federal Gov't agencies. You might be surprised at how many government and quasi-gov't authorities might suddenly become interested in what you are doing once you are up and running. Some might want to either shut you down, levy a big fine against you, bring criminal charges against you, seize your boat(s), decide that you must go through a long arduous permitting process with public hearings and so forth, or charge you lots or money for permitting. The problem is that you don't want this to happen, especially when you are up and running with money coming in and a payroll to make. I think your idea is fantastic and I hope everything works out.
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: Serious questions about jurisdiction CG or bay constables

I don't think you need an admiralty lawyer, but one who can work with regulatory agencies--business lawyer.

Don't mean to be beating up on you, but for the benefit of others--get a lawyer on board for any commercial venture at the beginning--it's worth it even if he says you don't need him. It is fairly common for someone to try to save some money on the front end, and then have to pay far more to have a lawyer extricate them from they hole they dug. I say it's like doing your own knee surgery. the folks in the worst binds are the ones who educate themselves with the internet (including taking legal advice from a forum like these--you note that no lawyer will give you legal advice here, but the non-lawyers are glad too!)

Chris makes a great point that needs to be amplified--let's say you open up Memorial Day and one of the many authorities come by and shut you down until you get some sort of permit. No problem getting it, and it's not expensive, but it takes 6-12 weeks. What happend to your business season?

I don't mix my personal and professional life on forums like these, but trust me when I say I'm familiar with this sort of thing and the responses given to your post are sound.

Oh, and another thing to expect--a particular official may be dead wrong about his jurisdiction, interpretation of the law, etc. but it won't make a bit of difference; he has the power. Effectively they change the law on you. sad but true.
 

NYJim

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
77
Re: Serious questions about jurisdiction CG or bay constables

You were all correct.

I reached out to three attorneys, two business and one admiralty. They all agreed their are multiple overlapping agencies who all have some type of jurisdiction on the waterways. What a ??@&$ mess to say the least.

End result, the overseeing of the all the agencies and person having the judges power would be an appointed position as Commisioner

I went to see him two weeks ago and met to discuss my concept. He asked I put together a proposal and submit it.

He responded with a letter listing his concerns which I have addressed. Hopefully my issues will be resolved and maybe get a permit to operate which will keep the competition at a minimum.

Will keep you all posted as to the outcome.

Thanks for your input

Jim



Met with the commissioner of conservation and waterways two weeks ago. I gave him a copy of my business plan ( without the numbers, of course!)
 
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