Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

ctd461

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Jun 10, 2012
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O.k., Newbie here, I have an opertunity to buy a Chaparral H2O Sport, but the only one they have left for this year model comes with a Merc 4.3 TKS, which is carburated at 190 hp. The dealer tells me it will have same torque and hole shot as the 4.3 mpi with 225hp, just a few mph less top end. My other concern is reliability of the carbed engine and longevity. the differance in price is $3,000.00. Do you think I should take it or wait for the 2013 model and get the fuel injection and spend the extra $3.000.00. The dealer also says price will probably increase by 5%, what are your thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance for any help and thoughts on this.
 

Bt Doctur

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Aug 29, 2004
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19,405
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

do some research on the ECU,ECM issues for replacement parts. Personally I`d stick with a carb, points and condensor.
They can withstand a emp burst better than ecectronic items.
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

The dealer also says price will probably increase by 5%, what are your thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance for any help and thoughts on this.

I would choose EFI over a carburetor any day.

Dealers are usually wanting to sell what they have so they ALWAYS tell you next years model will "cost more" to get you to buy what they have on the "lot". Wait until the end of the "season" and you'll easily negotiate the price to well under that 5% "increase"!!

They can withstand a emp burst better than ecectronic items.
toothlessgiggler.gif

I'm probably a little less worried about using my boat after a nuclear war.........
 

Tail_Gunner

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6,237
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

Buy the carbed version if your confused...worried about power have the dealer install a eldobrok 4 barrel intake and 4 barrell about 800..There your as fast as a mpi engine.
 

ctd461

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

Not so worried about the power as I am about it giving me problems, although, I'll diffidently remember that power upgrade when I get the bug.. I don't want to be one of those guys out there with the engine hood up tinkering all day. Imagine if I keep up the maintenance and drain the bowl after each use and use marine stable, I should be fine with the carb. I read some where a carbed engine will not last as long, is this true? Also, since the carbed engine is not catalized, do you think that would put the power back to equivalent of the catalized 225hp?
 

mercrewser

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Dec 4, 2003
Messages
367
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

Buy it. You won't have to drain the bowl after every use, and you wont have to worry about catalytic converters. There are pluses and minuses to both engines. My dealer only ordered h20s with TKS so I didnt really have a choice. Run stable and drain carb before winter, with proper maintenance the engine will run forever. I ended up not buying an H20, instead bought a 1979 Chris Craft with a carb that happens to run like it's fuel injected.
 

TilliamWe

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6,579
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

I read some where a carbed engine will not last as long, is this true?

Why would that be true? They are the SAME engines, just with a different intake manifold and induction system.

I LOVE fuel injection, and my TBI Mercruiser from 1997 operated FLAWLESSLY for 11 years and well over 800 hours. But if I wanted to go boating this summer, I'd buy the carbed boat and not worry about it. It certainly isn't worth $3000 to have MPI!
 

bnicov

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

I'd worry about repairs on an MPI engine once it's out of warranty. The parts are expensive and it's a lot harder for the backyard shadetree mechanic to work on. With diagnostics, catalytics, etc..... I'd stick to a carb that can be fiddled with and rebuilt by me.
 

81 Checkmate

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

NASCAR just went to fuel injection this year............. After all those years using a carb?
 

RogersJetboat454

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

If it were me, and I had the cash, and could wait a bit, I would go for the MPI. Those that shun new technology usually don't understand it, and have no interest in learning. And not for nothing, but EFI isn't exactly new anyway.

How many post's regularly pop up with the TKS carb acting like the piece of EPA restricted do-do that it is? Inversely, how many posts come up where the person ultimately needs a new ECU by no fault of their own? It's not 1980 anymore, computers rarely fail on their own accord. Usually moisture intrusion from a sunken boat, or someone who has no clue how to repair an electrical issue, is what ends up bricking the ECU.

As far as engines lasting longer with FI, think back to when carburetors were the majority on most vehicles. How long did the average engine last before needing a rebuild? If an engine made it over 100K it was some sort of miracle. Look around now. 100K is nothing. What's the difference?

Well... lets say you had a '79 Suburban with a big old wonderful Q-jet perched on the intake of it's 350. You follow the service manual to the book doing regular oil changes, tune-ups, etc. It would probably make it to 100K no problem, maybe even 150K, but I bet it would be getting pretty tired by then. Now let's say you have a '99 Suburban with a CPFI 350. You take care of it in the same way you take care of the '79. 200K, 250K, maybe even 300K fairly easy. What's the magic? Yes there have been a couple of changes in the design of the engine, the rollerized cam being the big one, but still nothing earth shattering. The difference is the fuel injected engine is more precisely metering the fuel into the cylinders, and therefore not washing the oil off the bores of the cylinders with excess fuel.

Now whether or not you realize this potential additional longevity with your boat is subject to how well you take care of the boat, how often you use the boat, and any hardships that the engine may suffer in it's history with you. There are plenty of old carbureted engines out there that haven't been touched, and still run great. The Glastron in my signature is one of them, but then again, that boat only sees 10 to 15 hours of use per year.

As far as catalytic converters, I don't know about boats, but they certainly aren't the devil on cars that most make them out to be. An old school pellet cat from the 70's certainly was an inline restriction, but modern honey comb converters may steal a measly horse or two from the big picture.

What ever you see fit to do is your business. I sure wouldn't hold it against you if you bought the carbed boat. It would certainly serve you many decades with proper care. My only concern is you don't let peoples superstitions, hang-ups, and outdated info influence you too much in your decision.
 

ezmobee

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Mar 26, 2007
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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

I would not buy a new boat without fuel injection. I only put up with carbs on my cheap older stuff cuz it's what I can afford.
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

In 1999, My brother (who sold me his wonderful Four Winns OMC 460 powered Liberator :rolleyes:) Bought a new ski-boat.

It's something like a Ski-Nautique, Supreme, Ski-"somthing" etc powered by a Mercury inboard 350 CU-in EFI V-8.

Here it is 2012 and all he does every year is park it with about half tank of fuel and sometimes he even puts STABIL in it (but not every year)

He changed the raw water pump only after the previous (original) one failed. (it took 8 years)

He uses this boat every summer nearly every weekend all summer.

I know for a fact that he has only changed the oil 4 or 5 times since new and maybe the fuel filter a couple of times.

He has NEVER changed any ignition parts (plugs wires etc) nor done anything to the fuel system (EFI, people) in the 13 years he has owned the boat.

Every summer, he always remarks that the boat initially starts and runs just like his car.......on the "first turn"......

I WOULD NOT HESITATE to buy an EFI boat. I don't know about the "cat converter" boats but cat converters don't do much of anything to fuel economy. The only problem with one might be from a reversion event.

If you're worried about them find a couple year old boat that doesn't have them.

EFI is head and shoulders above ANY carburetor....hands down.
 

ctd461

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Messages
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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

Just wanted to let you all know I'm reading and taking all this input into consideration. I'm feeling a little better about the tks (turn key start) carbs and will probably go with them. My pockets are not too deep and they wifie can live with the price as well. $3,000.00 may not seem like much, but for me it could mean boat or no boat, or at least not as good a quality built boat. Could go used, and have considered it, but I am very particular and a maintenance freak.
 

paultjohnson

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

I think you will be happy with the carb. My 86 has never failed me. I rebuilt the carb this year somewhat as general maintenance.Cost me less then $50.00 in parts. Its the first time the carb has been opened up. Im sure injected would be great as well, but $3K??? I dont think there is a one size fits all on this topic ... IMHO..... Best of luck:D
 

jack black

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Apr 29, 2012
Messages
43
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

I don't understand why they still make carbs, I guess it's cheaper. I hate the carb in my Bayliner. Hard to start after gas evaporates from carb leaving deposits behind. And I use Stabil religiously.
 

KyHeadhunter1

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Feb 25, 2012
Messages
45
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

You don't say where your from, but here in KY our gas is junk. I started running Stabil in everything but my cars because our gas goes bad in a matter of weeks. My boats are no exception. I have a 1992 Starcraft with a two barrel carbed 4.3 and the carb has never been rebuilt. This boat holds 38 gallons of gas and will run a very long time on it so I put Stabil in it every time I fill it up. I keep her tuned up and I keep the oil changed and this boat never misses a beat. It don't matter if it sits a few weeks or a few months between uses, I pump the throttle a couple times, turn the key, and she always fires right up. I boat on a a budget too and I feel that in the event one should ever have problems with the fuel system, a carbed motor is going to be much cheaper to have fixed if you ever should have trouble after your warranty is up.
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

I started running Stabil in everything but my cars because our gas goes bad in a matter of weeks.

And your cars are fuel injected?

The problem with todays gasoline is not that it's "junk". It's mainly because it has an EPA mandated vapor pressure far less than that of "yesteryear".

Low vapor pressure gasoline is not much of a problem in fuel injected engines because the fuel is atomized by passing it through a nozzle at relatively high pressure.

A carburetor vaporizes the fuel by passing it through a venturi...........the pressure DROP across that venturi and air-flow is what atomizes the fuel (low vapor pressure fuel doesn't atomize well in carburetors and it gets worse in cold weather)

If the vapor pressure of the fuel is low either because it was refined that way (like nowadays) or it sat in an open vented fuel tank for months, the resulting (LOWER) vapor pressure will cause starting problems in carbureted engines.......(It's partially why you need a "CHOKE")

Fuel additive "stabilizers" like Stabil CANNOT and DO NOT keep the higher-end hydrocarbons from evaporating off.

So the vapor pressure drops with time. It doesn't drop anything like it used to because it's (NOW) low to start with.
(AVGAS by the way has ALWAYS been low so it wouldn't boil at high pressure altitudes.....on the order of 7 PSI or so.)

Fuel injected engines are nearly immune to low vapor pressure problems (by comparison to carbs) Which is why just about ALL of the newer EFI engines don't have starting/running problems with the newer gasolines.

(I had gasoline in my old truck fuel tank that was about 5 years old. After carefully filtering it, I dumped it in my [4cyl EFI] 2003 Chev Cavalier and it didn't know the difference)

Fuel problems in boats are generally (water) contamination and delivery(fuel pump, filter, vent, tank screen/pick-up) related.

I feel that in the event one should ever have problems with the fuel system, a carbed motor is going to be much cheaper to have fixed if you ever should have trouble after your warranty is up.

I think I might disagree with that because carburetors are dwindling in numbers. As they slowly disappear, their rebuild-ability will become more expensive until it'll be cheaper to just replace them with a new or "reman".

Every time I have had to "fix" an EFI engine it was something VERY simple and cheap.......It's not always simple and cheap but I think EFI will tolerate far less maintenance than a carburetor.

In new boat, EFI wins every time.
 

jmarty10

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
560
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

I have the carbed TKS 4.3 in my boat. Love it and am not dissapointed. The turn key is a little bit of a stretch though. If boat sits for a week I pump throttle 3 times and it fires right up. If not it will crank for a while and die and then it eventually starts. If it sits for a day or two and i pump, well it gets flooded. Learned that the hard way a couple of weeks ago. Anyways, if you use it every couple of days then turn key. If it sit for a week pump throttle
 

ctd461

Cadet
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
9
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

OK, thanks to all of you for all the knowledge. I have decided on the fuel injection, sounds like benefits are too good to ignore. Only thing is I have to wait a few weeks for one to come in.
 

KyHeadhunter1

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
45
Re: Should I buy a new boat with a Carburator - Confused and Frustrated

And your cars are fuel injected?

The problem with todays gasoline is not that it's "junk". It's mainly because it has an EPA mandated vapor pressure far less than that of "yesteryear".

Low vapor pressure gasoline is not much of a problem in fuel injected engines because the fuel is atomized by passing it through a nozzle at relatively high pressure.

A carburetor vaporizes the fuel by passing it through a venturi...........the pressure DROP across that venturi and air-flow is what atomizes the fuel (low vapor pressure fuel doesn't atomize well in carburetors and it gets worse in cold weather)

If the vapor pressure of the fuel is low either because it was refined that way (like nowadays) or it sat in an open vented fuel tank for months, the resulting (LOWER) vapor pressure will cause starting problems in carbureted engines.......(It's partially why you need a "CHOKE")

Fuel additive "stabilizers" like Stabil CANNOT and DO NOT keep the higher-end hydrocarbons from evaporating off.

So the vapor pressure drops with time. It doesn't drop anything like it used to because it's (NOW) low to start with.
(AVGAS by the way has ALWAYS been low so it wouldn't boil at high pressure altitudes.....on the order of 7 PSI or so.)

Fuel injected engines are nearly immune to low vapor pressure problems (by comparison to carbs) Which is why just about ALL of the newer EFI engines don't have starting/running problems with the newer gasolines.

(I had gasoline in my old truck fuel tank that was about 5 years old. After carefully filtering it, I dumped it in my [4cyl EFI] 2003 Chev Cavalier and it didn't know the difference)

Fuel problems in boats are generally (water) contamination and delivery(fuel pump, filter, vent, tank screen/pick-up) related.



I think I might disagree with that because carburetors are dwindling in numbers. As they slowly disappear, their rebuild-ability will become more expensive until it'll be cheaper to just replace them with a new or "reman".

Every time I have had to "fix" an EFI engine it was something VERY simple and cheap.......It's not always simple and cheap but I think EFI will tolerate far less maintenance than a carburetor.

In new boat, EFI wins every time.

Well sir, your knowledge of gasoline is surely impressive! But I think its pretty naive of you to think that the gasoline you have in Washington is the same as we have in Ky. Many times a year the local gas stations will hang a sign up telling you to use the gas you are buying in two weeks or less. I don't use Stabil in our cars because we have to fill them at at least every two weeks.

My wife's 2000 GMC Jimmy has 90k on it to this day. She don't drive it much. Our gas has caused me to have to replace the fuel injector or "spider" three times and it has had 6 or 7 converters put on it in the 9 years we have owned it.

And, around here, if you had five year old gas in a tank, you wouldn't have been able to filter it as it would have no longer been liquid. It would have been solid.

I asked a local gas station owner a while back why our gas is so bad and he replied "KY has no pollution laws, so its a dumping ground for bad gas."

Around here, If you leave untreated gas in your outdoor power equipment through the 4 to 5 months of winter not a one of them will start come spring.

What I do know about our gas is that the majority of it comes from Marathon/Ashland Oil Co. in Ashland, KY. The big refinery in Ashland mainly refines the oil pumped from the mountains in southeastern KY and WV. They own the Valvoline brand, and if you have ever taken apart an engine that has ran nothing but Valvoline all its life then you know why they call it Valvo-sludge. I have taken apart many SBC's that the lifter valley and rocker arms looked like they were filled with chocolate cake because the ash content in the oil is so high, it gums up everything.

In my area, Stabil and Sea Foam are a way of life. As well as laquer thinner to soak your carb in when you forget the Stabil and Sea Foam...LOL!
 
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