should I buy Force?

[ryan04]

Hey guys, I was just curious about Force motors. Are they all bad? I'm looking at picking up a boat and alot of what I"m looking at has force on it, and all I've ever been told is their junk don't waste your time, is this true? As well is there such thing as a force inboard outboard engines? thanks.

 

[RRitt]

Re: should I buy Force?

if it was made before '92 and you plan on doing your own maintenance then chrysler force is a good engine. it is cheap and reliable power that is very easy to work on. chrysler/force/usmarine uses a lot of industry standard parts and most of maintenance parts can be gotten for under $20. For example the voltage regulator on a late 80's is a $4 square bridge available at most radio shack. From mercury it will cost you $35.

if you plan on having someone else do your maintenance then force is not such a good choice. you will pay same or more for service than johnny/merc/yamaha. the big marinas will hand your force engines to their least experienced mechanic and you will pay for his learning curve while standing high risk of inferior workmanship. they will buy parts from mercury catalog and you will pay $100 for the same items a home mechanic gets for $20.

 

[rudedude]

Re: should I buy Force?

Find out who did the maintance on the motor and what they did. Ask about the history of the motor as much as possible.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: should I buy Force?

Mine has been good to me.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: should I buy Force?

I'm on my 1st force ('90/90hp). I've had it out 27-28 times this summer without any problems.
So far so good. For yourself make sure it has a good history and check it out thoroughly yourself (compression test minimum)....or have a marine mechanic look at it for you.
Good Luck!!

 

[Kajun37]

Re: should I buy Force?

As well is there such thing as a force inboard outboard engines? thanks.

sounds like your talking about a force L-drive motor, they were the only force inboard/outboards...if it is stay away from those motors..there are no parts for them...if do you find them they are expensive........if it is a regular force outboard then you have more options depending on the condition of it.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: should I buy Force?

sounds like your talking about a force L-drive motor, they were the only force inboard/outboards...if it is stay away from those motors..there are no parts for them...if do you find them they are expensive........if it is a regular force outboard then you have more options depending on the condition of it.

I'd have to agree with this. Most feedback on these L-drives seems to show them as problematic. That isn't the end of the world but if they are/were a 'short run' design (2 years or?) parts will be difficult to find. I would avoid these L-drives. Stick with the outboards if you are considering Force stuff I think.

 

[steelespike]

Re: should I buy Force?

Force is ok though I have been unimpressed with my very limited exposure.
Keep in mind there is a reason for their reasonable price.
There is esentially no new part production except for generic or merc based parts.Low purchase price=low resale value.
As far as the I/O even the Force fans suggest STAY AWAY.

 

[RRitt]

Re: should I buy Force?

Force is ok though I have been unimpressed with my very limited exposure.
Keep in mind there is a reason for their reasonable price.
There is esentially no new part production except for generic or merc based parts.Low purchase price=low resale value.
As far as the I/O even the Force fans suggest STAY AWAY.

Yes, the L-drive seems like a bad idea that was quickly abandoned. when a manufacturer spends the R&D money to develop a porduct and then abandons it after only a year or two it almost always means that they gave up trying to make it work properly.

due to chrysler heritage many of the parts for force outboards can be found in automotive industry and the design engineers made conscious effort to utilize industry standard components. For example new stators are only $125 if you find them through auto industry. Same part in marine industry is $350-$400. I'm sure that mercury uses only the very highest quality plastic and cardboard but the packaging still isn't worth $250.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: should I buy Force?

Popular opinion can be an indicaton (most of us agree that the L drive was a bad idea--like Caddy's 2,4,6 and Old's first diesel) but let's put it in perspective: If you talk to enough people, you will hear "don't buy a Ford -- Fix Or Repair Daily--Found On Road Dead--etc." Same goes for Chevy or Dodge. Yet there's a lot of them on the road.
Just look at how many posts there are for Merc, Rude Yammy etc. Any brand is going to have some that crap out, but Force, being the low price entry level engine developed the bad reputation. Might have something to do with the people buying them not knowing squat about care and maintenance of a boat and outboard

 

[RRitt]

Re: should I buy Force?

Popular opinion can be an indicaton (most of us agree that the L drive was a bad idea--like Caddy's 2,4,6 and Old's first diesel) but let's put it in perspective: If you talk to enough people, you will hear "don't buy a Ford -- Fix Or Repair Daily--Found On Road Dead--etc." Same goes for Chevy or Dodge. Yet there's a lot of them on the road.
Just look at how many posts there are for Merc, Rude Yammy etc. Any brand is going to have some that crap out, but Force, being the low price entry level engine developed the bad reputation. Might have something to do with the people buying them not knowing squat about care and maintenance of a boat and outboard

frank, i think it is because people fail to distinguish chrysler force from mercury force. One was pretty crappy and one was pretty good. Even if you do everything the maintenance manual says to do the mercs can still self-destruct due to reeds and stators. People automatically assume that mercury force is as good or better than chrysler force because mercury has so much brand exposure and it is the newer model. It's not hard to get a bad reputation when people assume that crappy is as good as it ever got. But hey, I'm not complaining. It means I can get a good outboard for about the same price as a lawn mower.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: should I buy Force?

I prefer Chrysler (good looking hood and white color is nicer than black--especially in the sun.) and like Force but I will admit that I would not buy one that Merc had started to change. So I kind of limit myself to say 92 and earlier. And even there, I'm not so sure about that two piece drive shaft from 90 on. My newest (youngest?) Force is a 1990 90 with an earlier lower unit. Next acquisition will be a late model Chrysler 140 with a 25 inch leg and one piece lower unit. Don't need it, just want it for my collection. Didn't look up the numbers yet but it was probably one of the last Chryslers made before US Marine bought them.

 

[contractorguy]

Re: should I buy Force?

Not much experience here, but I'll throw in a couple pennies worth....
The dreaded L-Drive doesn't seem the bad to me so far. Parts aren't really an issue, unless you break it in half. The powerhead is the same as a 90/120, and the lower unit will even swap with a regular outboard. The difference is the housing and u-joints in between. I've been watching parts sell on e-bay, and there really pretty reasonable. A complete L-Drive just sold for $321 with EVERYTHING! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=180156105751&rd=1
It is a DIY drive package... don't even try to get a mechanic to look at it!

 

[newbie4life]

Re: should I buy Force?

Not much experience here, but I'll throw in a couple pennies worth....
The dreaded L-Drive doesn't seem the bad to me so far. Parts aren't really an issue, unless you break it in half. The powerhead is the same as a 90/120, and the lower unit will even swap with a regular outboard. The difference is the housing and u-joints in between. I've been watching parts sell on e-bay, and there really pretty reasonable. A complete L-Drive just sold for $321 with EVERYTHING! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=180156105751&rd=1
It is a DIY drive package... don't even try to get a mechanic to look at it!

I concur 110%. I've heard nothing but negative about the L's. I've even said negative remarks.... turns out, the only problem I had was a bad battery connection. Once that was fixed (and the powerhead had been rebuilt ) everything works perfectly...

When I had the powerhead rebuilt, the boat shop asked if I were interested in a 125hp instead of the 85hp. YEAH!!!!

But then, my wife told me no.

So, we compromised... and had the 85hp rebuilt.

Back on the subject at hand -- I'm afraid that I'll dump the boat in the spring, when prices are up, and I'll stick it on E-bay... so I can buy something that is a 4-stroke. But for a starter boat, she's been a great investment. I may not get much for a monetary return, but the educational return is priceless.

And for what it's worth, an education still costs money.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: should I buy Force?

I saw a guy at the lake today who beat the L-Drive blues. He simply removed it from the boat. Closed/fibreglassed the opening and he put on an external offshore outboard motor bracket on the back. The motor he mounted appeared to be a big Johnson (pardon the expression). Looked great, really moved out. Plus he gets a nice tidy boat rear end arrangement with swim grid, etc. The boat itself was a 90' Capri...I think in the 19' model. Anyhow, he was out with family ready to roll and go tubing.
For those who don't think they can get around fixing their L-drives....maybe this is a cheap and easy option? Looked good to me.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: should I buy Force?

frank, i think it is because people fail to distinguish chrysler force from mercury force. One was pretty crappy and one was pretty good. Even if you do everything the maintenance manual says to do the mercs can still self-destruct due to reeds and stators. People automatically assume that mercury force is as good or better than chrysler force because mercury has so much brand exposure and it is the newer model. It's not hard to get a bad reputation when people assume that crappy is as good as it ever got. But hey, I'm not complaining. It means I can get a good outboard for about the same price as a lawn mower.

RR this is pretty interesting info. Was Force a better product under Chrysler rather than Merc?....noting that the mercs have a pretty good reputation. Was it poor combinations of the two (merc/force) that didn't work out?

 

[RRitt]

Re: should I buy Force?

Merc made two specific errors that most compromised the engine. They tried to go to a universal stator but there was a defect in the product. It was problem that affected both force and mercury. The second error was that they replaced the metal reed valves with composite ones. Force engines cold sneeze when starting and it cracks the reeds. When the reeds crack then the engine runs lean. Blown powerheads due to cracked reeds is very common in mercury Force.

Most of their other changes were corner cutting and production streamlining. Very rarely did they make any changes to Force with the goal of improving the quality or durability. For example, they did away with the separate pivot bolt and used the steering tube as pivot. They did away with the two stage/three ram trim system and used a single stage/single ram.

The other thing worth noting is engineering philosophy. In the '60s and '70s it was considered good engineering to use industry standard parts. It made repairs easier, cheaper, and faster with a lower requirement for mechanics to be trained on a specific brand. In the the mid '80s manufacturers stopped looking at maintenance as a responsibility and started viewing it as a profit center. As such good engineering meant using proprietary parts. The voltage rectifier is a perfect example. Chrysler used a 35-50A industry standard square bridge. You can buy them from almost any electronics place for about $5. You could open your TV, stereo, or microwave oven and find the same device. For chrysler that was considered good engineering. For mercury it was considered bad engineering ... there is no profit in competing with radio shack over a $5 part. The rectifier was replaced with a proprietary unit. It is not any better or worse but they are the only ones who sell it. The price of the "new and improved" rectifier (part # 883071A1) is $150.

If I had to pick my favorite it would be '89-'91 with black CDI, 2 piece driveshaft, and 2w prestolite trim/tilt.

 

[Mark42]

Re: should I buy Force?

I have been an Evinrude owner for years. I read all over that Force was crap and never gave it much thought. Then I bought a 1985 Bayliner that came with a 85hp 1985 Force. It was missing on one cylinder and I just assumed I would replace it with a newer Johnson/Evinrude.

But money got tight, so I decided to find out what was wrong with the old Force and run it for a while. This 3 cylinder 85hp motor is much easier to work on than my 92 Evinrude 40hp. I had all three carbs off in 15 minutes. Back on in 5. All linkage is easy to adjust, the wire harnes is simple. In fact, everything on this motor is simple and heavy duty looking.

So I'm going to stick with the old Force for a while. It ran for two weeks on a bay being pushed hard at times and never broke. It starts with just a bump of the starter, idles smooth, and gets up and runs like a scalded cat at WOT.

They sold thousands of these motors, and thousands are still in daily use. They can't be total junk, infact, I think the technology might be dated, but it is solid.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: should I buy Force?

My old 88 125 Force (after a Stator, and one P-Pack), is still a strong runner (in salt water too)...but I would shy away from an L drive...

 

[Trevor9751]

Re: should I buy Force?

I am probably a little bias to the no side I had a 95 force 120 and a 92 force 120 they are completely different nothing swaps across due to the swap from US marine to merc everything was changed except for the bare block and then trying to find parts for them was like pulling teeth had to order them from allover the continent ( this was mainly for the newer one ) because merc does not even make half the parts for them anymore even trying to find a mechanic to even work on them is impossible everyone you talk to wants nothing to do with anything labeled force no matter who made it also with one of them strapped to the back of your boat you better hope you do not have to sell it because just like you are everyone will look to see the reputation of force and will be looking at something else to buy This is just one mans opinion and I do think my experience was alot worse than most so I am a little negative on them but I would suggest doing what I did if the boat is a good deal buy it get rid of the motor for what you can and repower save the headaches of hunting for parts all summer when you should be skiing