Ski "Observers" are dangerous

SeaHorse

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
205
Back in the old days, that is, "BC" (before the Communists), you didn't need an "observer" in addition to the boat driver when skiing. This was the safest method and I believe it still is. For those who do not ski, it would appear that the extra person adds to safety when in fact they actually subtract from it. The "observer" adds another layer of responsibility and communication between the skiier and driver, something that is not only unnecessary but dangerous. When I'm the skiier, I want ONE person to rely on, not some "team" with vague, ambiguous assignments. I don't want to hear "Oh, I thought you saw him go down" or "I think he signalled "go left." <br /> Because my state has adopted the "do gooder" observer law, I must have a 2nd person in the boat but this second person is instructed to sit down, keep quiet, and be a passenger only. Then the boat driver and I proceed to ski just like in the "BC" days. When I'm the boat driver, I don't want some back seat driver telling me what to do, it's hard enough to watch for other boats and protect the skiier.<br /> Save me from those who think I need their new laws to save me from myself.
 

tylerin

Commander
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
2,368
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I do agree that a "observer" should not relieve you of you responsibilities of a driver. In my state you have to have someone raise a orange flag when skiier or rope is in the water. There were not as many boats in the water back in the days when you strapped a belt on and went skiing.
 

EatMoreFish

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Dec 9, 2001
Messages
81
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

We end up getting these laws becuase people are stupid. You end up with one guy on the boat only looking at the skier and he forgets to look where he is going. <br />But an observer that does not know how to observer and tell the driver what is needed quickly and clearly is useless.
 

DaveM

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 27, 2002
Messages
308
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I see your point, but I don't agree. I always used an observer even in the days when it was not required. There have been too many times that I had to drop the skier (even though I had the right of way) because of another driver facing backwards, not paying attention to where they are going. I give the observer clear instructions to not take their eyes off the skier while I put all my effort into controlling the boat. Call me a wuss, but I don't want to become tomorrows headline.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Completely disagree.<br /><br />The observers job is to watch the person being towed. That's it. Why do you think competition ski boats have a seat that faces backwards?<br /><br />Ever watch the pro's ski. They have an observer.<br /><br />The drivers job is to do just that-drive. It is the drivers responsibility to watch for traffic, obstacles, and control the boat-period.<br /><br />Coordination must be worked out between the driver, observer and the person being towed.
 

kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

A GOOD observer,is someone who keeps their eyes on the skier always, who knows what to say and how & when to say it, and when to keep quiet. A GOOD observer has the sense to be a team player and not get in the way. A GOOD observer is getting more and more valuable as the lakes get busier and busier. There are more and more buffoons out there we now have to be looking out for who don't have a clue and frankly don't give a rip about anyone else on the water. And that is before they've even finished their first six pack. I'm tending more and more to head to the lake on weekdays to avoid these idiots. And if there is ever any sort of accident you're liable to be up a creek if there are only two. No one will ever be in the water without a good observer in my boat.
 

duck-n-pond

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 27, 2003
Messages
124
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I have no problem with having an observer onboard, but unfornatly, finding a good one is not often easy. At the end of the day, I don't trust many of my observers - hard as I may try to train them. They just don't seem to see the importance of signal and communication, even if they are skiiers/tubers themselves. I trust me and feel I have to be watching everything myself - all corners of the boat. Of course, i am always open to the occasional scream. But, I always have one onboard. Not because the law dictates, but because if a skier does get hurt, I may need somebody else in the water or need help recovering the person quickly. To each his own. In short, observers are not as vital as law makers think, but not a bad idea either - I don't think they make matters worse unless you get a driver that depends on them. DON'T DEPEND ON OBSERVERS!!!!!!
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I just wish it would stop rainig here in the Northeast long enough to even go for a ride.... Thoughts of water skiing and such are just too romantic at this point for me :cool:
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,763
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Ever try to pull an unconcious person from the water, up into your boat, by yourself? Can't be done unless you have 4 arms.
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Yes I have pulled an unconcious skier out of the water (co-incidently his name is Ross aka Roscoe!)... Glad I had two "observers" in the boat with me that day.. Thank you Roscoe.... That explains it all....
 

wallbanger2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Messages
80
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Personally I would never think of trying to either pull a skier or be a skier without an observer. I know as the driver, I need to concentrate solely on what is going on in front of and around the boat. My first priority is the safety of my party and others on the lake, not to watch my buddy cutting back and forth across the wake. I have had to avoid too many Bone-heads who think they can drive and observe at the same time and end up being a danger to everyone on the water. Not to mention all the times I watched someone pull a skier through a no wake zone at a boat ramp because they just had to watch the show behind them.<br />I personally have never had any problems with comunication between the skier, the observer and myself. We have always gone over the basic hand signals we use (there are only 5 and easily seen) so that everyone is on the same page. <br />Just my 2 cents
 

duck-n-pond

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 27, 2003
Messages
124
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I wouldn't really use 'bonehead' as a description of a driver. Not everybody boats in crowded water. I boat to get away from people, not visit a city on the water. Where I boat is a big lake, no marine/wake zones, very seldom are there any other boats (even then it would usually be 1-2 miles away). I don't think insults will help get your point across, even if you are correct in what you are saying.
 

chris in va

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
410
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I've only been boating for about a year now, but it's been a fairly intense year. When I'm pulling a tuber, there's no way I can concentrate on traffic AND watch in the rearview to see what they're doing. Not only that, but sometimes they swing out very wide and I just plain can't see that far over. <br /><br />Observer is definitely the way to go. You just have to make sure there's good communications with preselected signals.
 

wallbanger2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Messages
80
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Sorry to have offended anyone, but some times I have to call them as I see them. I guess I should have elaborated a little more to illustrate my point. I was refering to when people put their boat in a slowly decreasing left turn on a long lake (LAke Anderson) or the delta (N. Cali). They do this (I assume)so they don't have to watch the shore on the right side of their boat (interferes with the show behind them)and end up cutting across oncoming boats.<br />I'm not sure what your deffinition of crowded is, but normally there was about 2-5 minutes between boats going in the same direction. Granted the Delta is not very wide (about 100 ft on average off the main channel) but I would think they would want to pay more attention where they were going in a narrow, twisting body of water such as that. <br />p.s. I have witnessed 2 such sterling examples run their boats aground in the deltabecause they didn't look forard in time to see the beach coming at them.
 

SeaHorse

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
205
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Very interesting replies. It appears that some drivers want to have an observer since it helps them and I think this is fine. Some captains can pilot a 35 foot sailboat by themselves while others feel more at ease with a crew or two. It was interesting to note that the most reasonable replies, whether for or against, came from experienced drivers who could make a reasonable case for their style, while others cited either one-in-a-million hypotheticals that just don’t happen in real life or have no bearing on the facts.<br /><br />My problem is not with those who use their option to have an observer, it is with those who create more and more unnecessary laws aimed at protecting us from ourselves. Whenever somebody does something stupid like running over a dock or eating five Big Macs and fries every day for 10 years and gaining 200 pounds, somebody wants to pass a law to prevent such stupidity.<br /><br />Profession skiers have needs beyond that of a regular, weekend skier, namely: <br /> 1) The observer is probably his coach.<br /> 2) The pro is doing dangerous flips which can break his neck<br /> 3) The event sponsors and the boat maker need protection from liability when he breaks his neck. Not that the observer will do anything to prevent the broken neck—it will appear that the sponsor “cared” and was “watching” him. This tends to mitigate the damage the dumb juries and judges will award...<br />Recreational ski boats have rear facing seats because <br /> A) it’s a great show to watch the ski stunts<br /> B) Some are used for professionals, see above<br /><br />The main job of the recreational ski driver is to protect the skier. Protect him from what? Other boats, period. You can’t protect him from hitting his head on the ski or breaking his neck but you must protect him from other boats. You can have 10 observers in the boat if you want to watch him like a hawk. You can put binoculars on him, videotape him, whatever. This isn’t doing him any good. What will do him some good is if you keep other boats from running over him. He is forced by law to wear a life jacket with so much lift that he cannot get down under the water to avoid a propeller. He’s a sitting duck. This is another recent law that appears great but can kill you. Don’t get me started… If my skier goes down, I turn my boat around so fast the observers would be thrown out of the boat if they’re not careful. I get back to the skier at full throttle while looking out for any boat that may be coming at him. It’s like a mother bear and her cub. I’ll warn, wave off, block and/or ram anything that will run over him. When all’s clear, I’ll pick him up. <br /><br />I think I have a time perspective on this topic because I have recently gotten back into boating after a 35 year hiatus. Without the gap, I may not have noticed to creeping “do gooderism” that has begun to infiltrate the boating world. Without constant vigilance we are going to see more and more freedoms taken away from this great activity by stupid, uninformed lawmakers who kowtow to those who want to “take care of us.” The sad part is many come from within our own ranks. Soon we will probably all have to have a one inch reflective stripe around our boats. Of course, this is entirely unnecessary and will be an unsightly maintenance nightmare. That doesn’t matter. What matters most is that somebody thought we need it to protect ourselves from ourselves.
 

chris in va

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
410
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Not once in your original message did you mention 'professional' skier/driver. I would certainly think that situation is a controlled environment, unlike the 'recreational' skier/tuber. <br /><br />You don't see stopsigns and turn signals in car racing. For the average Joe however, they are there for a reason.
 

rpg

Cadet
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Have to agree with SeaHorse completely. Just got a new inboard with the huge ski mirror that gives about 100% view of the skiier wherever they are behind the boat. More people in the boat shouting, "fall, down, stop, halt, ALTO" only adds to the confusion.<br /><br />Years ago when just my brother and I would sneak out on our Reinell with the 70 horse Johnson, we'd bring along his German Shepard. If you fell, she barked. Simple, uncomplicated. Nobody ever got killed or chopped up.<br /><br />Yesterday I was stopped by Sheriff for an "ahem" safety Check. I was given a verbal warning for not having a throw cushion, despite the fact I had 8 life preservers and 3 ski vests onboard. <br /><br />We're on a small inland private lake. Sheriff patrols every weekend. If you do 2 mph through a no wake zone, you'll be cited. This same Nimrod gives my neighbor a ticket for being 80 feet away from a swim area when the law says 100 feet minimum. How did Barney Fife measure the infraction? Well, theys now got special binoculars that measure the discrepancy. <br /><br />I'm half tempted to file a "Voyage Plan" with the Hillsdale County Sheriff everytime I venture out on my 400 acre ocean just to be sure I'm rescued hence if I don't make it back alive.<br /><br />Ahhh, the benefits of protecting us from ourselves. Socialism, you gotta love it.
 

mattttt25

Commander
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

this is a joke. i've skied since i was 5 and spent plenty of time driving. you need an observer, end of discussion. a driver should be driving the boat, not watching the skier, regardless of how great his rearview mirror is. these laws are necessary to protect us from idiots who think they know something about boating.
 

lakeman1999

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
550
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

rpg, are you as dangerous on the highway, as you are on the water????? :D :D
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,763
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

rpg, when you're looking in the mirror, who's watching for other boats, pwc, or floating logs?<br /><br />Seahorse, One in million ... not the real world...<br />On what planet do you live on? Accidents are happening all the time on the water. You should really check the patrol logs and the emergency room admissions.
 
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