Ski "Observers" are dangerous

rpg

Cadet
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I've been a safe boat operator for the last 30 years. (Highways too) I've owned and driven 12 foot rowboats, outboards, I/O's and recently got my first inboard. I've slalom skiied for the past 25 years and taught at least 10 kids how to ski and kneeboard. i volunteer my time helping seniors in my community as well as teaching people the finer points of Photography (in my darkroom)<br /><br />My point is that more laws don't make it safer. Laws exist in a free society to protect the individual from one another, not from themselves. But more laws certainly increase the revenue for local authorities! That we do know. Ever get a speeding ticket and wonder where the money goes? Your jaw would drop. <br /><br />The point is whether you need a law to dictate things that are common sense. Or a law describing throwable cushions. What size, material, color, max. weight capacity??? Anchor type, rope size, material, thickness, loop density? Please.<br /><br />Or one to tell how much junk food is safe (that one's coming) <br /><br />Christ this America. You'd think that with all the overregulation going on that without some corrupt politician thinking this stuff up we'd never have created the great nation we are. <br /><br />5 months ago I was the first one to wave at a cop, buy them breakfast, etc. Since that time, I've had one of my classic motorcycles illegally confiscated, (got a written letter of apology for that one) gotten a ticket for 3mph over and have watched week in and week out the local sheriff's hand out fine after fine for frivolous offenses on our lake. I talk to my fellow neighbors who like I, are starting to wonder what it is these guys really do. <br /><br />I state emphatically that I don't need to be protected from myself. I was raised with the correct values that my parents taught me. Other than that, let's do some skiing!!
 

mattttt25

Commander
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

i like having a law that protects me from you. as you are driving your boat around, teaching those 10 kids to ski, and not paying attention to what's in front of you, i hope i'm not around. and i hope the law is to ticket you. enjoy-
 

Tacklewasher

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
1,588
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

won't pull a tube without an observer. They get rather detailed instructions including how important they are. They also get told to never take their eyes off the guy I'm pulling. The last thing I want is to not know where the guy has fallen and have to spend time looking for someone in the chop. With one person assigned to let me know where he is, I have that much more comfort.<br /><br />Now, I've never actually had to ask someone where the guy is, but it's important to know that the safety is there.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Messages
26
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I agree with the majority here - an observer that knows what they are doing is a good thing. (Especially when its my kids out in the water) With jetski knuckleheads all over the place and so many boats everywhere, the driver really needs to concentrate on driving and avoiding a disaster.<br /><br />Ralph Spencer - I saw your post above about all the rain - we'll take some here in Oklahoma - our lakes are down so much (4 - 10 feet low) because of our lack of rain. We are losing alot of our ramps because the water is so low. People getting killed on our lakes also because of stumps that are now just below water line with the low lake levels. Really sucks right now and water is so murky from getting kicked up. Pray for rain for us and we'll pray yours goes away.<br /><br />Have a great day and God Bless
 

Boatin Bob

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
1,858
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I ski with my kids all the time and we always have an observer, to me it's just common sense and you should do it whether there is a law for it or not. On our lake with big cruiser wakes, PWC's, offshore boats, wind surfers a driver has to focus on driving and leave the observing to the observer.
 

duck-n-pond

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 27, 2003
Messages
124
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Well, back to the main question posted by Seahorse and echoed by RPG, we are getting regulated to death. I purchased a new hull this year, but almost never because of increasing laws. I take every precaution I can think of going out on the water - I don't like asking for help and ruining somebody else's day. I have more than enough safety gear, always lots of fuel, two motors (main and kicker), and unless I am by myself I always make sure somebody else can drive. Here in Canada, I understand the CCGuard protecting boaters, but I am always feeling like a potential criminal going out on the water, always loooking over my shoulder wondering when the next inspection is and what laws changed since I last checked. Leave me alone - I boat for freedom as long as I don't infringe on anybody elses!!!!!!!!! To me, its a government money drive making money from fines, registrations and licenses and having spent 1/2 year in the USA, I am sure it's the same there.
 

dixie420

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
30
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

well ive never been skiing, but i do fish, and that means im on the water at least as much if not more than most skiiers. let me tell you in the daytime its bad on most lakes in my area. i cant tell you how many boats twice my size have been coming straight at me for 50-100yards while some do it all driver is looking in his rearview or craning his neck watching a skiier or tuber. this happens if your cruising, trolling, whatever. there needs to be an observer, not only so the driver dosent kill someone, so i dont run over some fallen skiier after having to manuver around some maniac driver. it not only adds to your saftey but mine, someone said laws dont make things safer. no, but safe practices do. you show me one ski driver than can pull a skiier, watch him fall and turn the boat around without taking his eyes off both the skiier and the open water around him and i might change my mind. <br /><br />observers=good icandoitalls=bad
 

Maximerc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Messages
292
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I hate the law about the observer... really I do, but to be honest , that person hanging behind your boat by a thread deserves the driver to look forward and have some one watch him and what his needs are. Years ago when I was 9 years old we use to rid our bikes around the 4 mile county square alone. We might see 3 cars on that trip. Now the same road you will see easliy 30 cars , I would not allow my daughter to take the same ride, if she would WANT to. Times are changin.. wayyyy to many people crowded together
 

SeaHorse

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
205
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

I guess I was wrong. What was I thinking? I guess I’m getting senile. Clearly, this boating is dangerous stuff and with all the crazies out there we definitely need more laws to protect us. Anyone can plainly see that the boating world has gotten off easy with its lax regulation and clearly needs laws. What planet have I been living on? Accidents are happening all the time on the water. I should really check the patrol logs and the emergency room admissions. Then I would understand just what a crying need we have for greater regulation. <br /><br />Having seen the light, I am going to get with my government representatives and see just what can be done about this horrifying situation. Obviously, much needs to be changed; many new laws need to be written. Just for starters I have compiled a partial list that I think would be a great beginning. It may take a year or two to get these enacted but I hope by then some of the people on this board can suggest quite a few more since they seem so much more astute and in tune with the safety needs of the boating public than I am. Geez, I didn’t even think we needed ski observers, how out of touch can I get? <br /><br />Here’s my starter list:<br /><br />1. All boats must have a 2 inch wide reflecting stripe all around.<br />2. All boats must pay a registration fee of $67 per foot annually to support the new Office of Recreational Boating Safety..<br />3. All boats must have a self inflating lifeboat capable of carrying and providing life support for all the passengers. Each lifeboat shall have 2 radios, 2 water purification systems, signaling and survival gear, etc...<br />4. Each passenger must have a survival suit capable of protection from 35 degree water for 8 hours. Each suit must have an EPIRB, whistle, first aid kit, anti shark kit (if ocean).<br />5. All boats must have enclosed propeller per 102.22.332.<br />6. All boats must have radar/collision avoidance system.<br />7. All boats must have alcohol/driver under the influence detection system.<br />8. The speed limit is 25 mph except in open oceans, 7 mph within a mile from shore, in any river, etc. etc., a long list of no wake zones.<br />9. All boat drivers must have a Captain’s license, must be 18.<br />10. Tubing and water ski limited to secluded areas over 1 square mile per boat. One driver, one observer and one flag man required in each boat. Tow ropes are limited to 30 feet in length.<br />11. No two stroke motors. (Even though new technology has them producing far less pollution and noise than four strokes. Logic has no place here. The ignorant remember the old two stroke smokers and that’s what counts.) All motors to have catalytic converters and exhaust nox and co1/co2 scrubber/converter systems.<br />12. All boats must follow one of the three government approved templates for hull design and power to weight ratios. No cats, bow riders or other dangerous designs.<br />13. All boat trips over 5 miles or 2 hours must file a float plan with the new Office of Recreational Boating Safety.<br />14. All boats must have a built-in, automatic fire control system capable of putting out two gallons of gasoline dumped into the bilge and ignited.<br />15. Two persons are required in any boat underway. One pilot and one person to observe and look out for other boats and also to help pull an unconscious person from the water should the boat come across one.<br /><br />Happy Boating !!! :) <br /> :)
 

shadowdwpp

Seaman
Joined
Jul 10, 2003
Messages
57
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

you forgot mandatory 2 ft high netting around the perimeter of the boat if there are any children on board.
 

Maximerc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Messages
292
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Sea horse ..man you see the light of day very clearly ! All that stuff can ,may happen and its all because no person wants to take resposiblity for there action , and the court system allowing people to sue over hot coffee burns caused it. Lets all rip the capacity plates off our boats and put the hull numbers in the same color as the hull !<br /><br />Let it be as "Stupid is as stupid does"
 

rpg

Cadet
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

SeaHorse, I wish I could add a few items, but I'm still laughing too hard. The sad part is that inevitably, most of the laws are probably more than just a gleam in a slick policitian's eye.<br /><br />How does that saying go?<br /><br />"There are none so blind as those who will not see"<br /><br />rpg
 

bay5884

Seaman
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
63
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

It's all about common sense....say you and one other person go out on your boat and plan to go skiing. If the lake is crowded with boats, maybe it's not such a good idea with only two people. But if you get there and have some water to yourself....GO SKIING WITH ONLY ONE PERSON IN THE BOAT LIKE YOU INTENDED! It all depends on the situation...I don't need any law telling me that on a quiet day, I can't go skiing because I couldn't come up with a third person on that particular day. There are a lot of laws out there already that are nothing but money makers for the local sherrif's dept...and those are the ones that I know I refuse to adhere to. Ever notice how many more speed traps there are at the end of the month? That's because they have a type of quota for the month.<br /><br />I have a sticker on my boat that says "Stupid Should Hurt".....and it does. So drive defensively for your own well being, stay away from the stupid people and let them be stupid...it'll hurt eventually and they might change their ways.<br /><br />Oh, and one more new law to add to your list. <br />We seem to have a wave of "jet-skis prohibited" going around, how about getting those pesky canoes off the lake too. That way no one has to look out for either one. Eventually we'll go to no motorized boats everywhere and then when they get too annoying to some a**hole, we'll just have to swim if we want to get out on the lake!(We will still be required to register our boats and jet-skis every month though to support the Office of Recreational Boating Safety)
 

magster65

Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Messages
2,573
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Let's face it... literally, if your spotter does his job correctly, he is an asset. With them aboard a driver can focus on where he's going, not what's behind them. I personally don't like the idea of a ski boat buzzin' around the lake with the driver looking backwards. Next thing you know he'll be brushing his hair while yapping on his cell. phone. IMO boaters should try and be as safe as possible at all times to avoid the general public perceiving us as a nuisance. Let's keep attention away from us and let the law makers pick on the gun owners or... Oh yeah, they're already doing that. :( <br />I'm tired of hearing the word 'crackdown' when it comes to our recreation, anyone with me on this? <br />Another thing, that clutter created by all that safety gear is sounding quite dangerous. :)
 

Tacklewasher

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
1,588
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

How do we balance the desire for boating freedom against the stupidity of some people. A little girl died here last year as she was sitting on the handlebars of a seadoo talking to her dad who drove into a boat. LAst night a lawyer was killed as they were boating drunk. Yeah, I know, it's only a lawyer, but the death of one of them is going to do havoc with our laws.<br /><br />Because of all the dumb seadoo people, I need a safe boaters card to drive my 12' with an electric but nothing to drive an 18' with a 120.<br /><br />I hear he frustration and know it is going to get worse, but I also see why and wonder what the better solution is.
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
19,200
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

Don't forget to add the porta-potties to the list - don't want people falling overboard with their flies down and polluting the water!<br /><br />In all seriousness, I feel your pain and I agree with it. Stupid should hurt. I just don't want someone else's stupidness to hurt me or mine! Was out with the family on Saturday, boating along and minding my own business when a 'Toon with a tuber behind kept cutting me off. Plenty of observers on board, but the driver insisted on watching also. Lake was busy and his manuevers were dangerous to himself, others in his boat, his tuber, and myself and family. It is a grey area, where do you draw the line between safe boating and common sense, especially when so much common sense is disappearing
 

bay5884

Seaman
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
63
Re: Ski "Observers" are dangerous

The population is just too great on the water and everywhere now not to have rules. We used to be able to do stupid things, get hurt and learn from the experience (as long as we didn't kill ourselves in the process :D ) and there was no one else around to worry about (except the people that were stupid enough to ride with us :eek: ). With so many people around us now, there's no room for error, so we get more laws and rules. I think it really does just boil down to a population issue in the end, and will be a never ending battle.<br /><br />In the meantime though, when it's just you and the buddies that were stupid enough to ride with you....do some stupid things, grin and bear how it hurts, and learn something from it! I always say, if you don't know the limits of your machine and what it can do, you might not know what it can't do until it's too late!!<br /><br />(I think we're just far enough off topic now :D :confused: :D
 
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